British Tennis Forum

stevemcqueen wrote:

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I started wathing from 3-3 in the second set. I thought that maybe Dan could turn things round  when he saved a match point at 5-6 and then broke serve to get to the breaker. When he was 5-3 up in the breaker, I was optimistic that I'd have more tennis to watch.   But no.  Dan's level is just not where it used to be.  Too many of his trading and defensive shots were missing, Dan used to be really good at staying in points.  

I so, so want for Dan to turn things round, but I don't think it is going to happen.

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 I agree re Dan, hard to see how and when it will happen at all. We have all been waiting and hoping for , what, 18 months now that something will spark and it hasn't. 

He obviously still gets pleasure from it, he wouldn't keep going otherwise. I have often wondered if doubles might be a route for a couple of final years, but his ranking is too low in singles to get doubles entries and he would have to start way down in challengers. He won't get main ATP Tour wild cards, his name isn't that big outside the UK. 

Right now - no one has put themselves up for a potential wild card into the Big W, MD or qualies (1 win for Giles or JPJ doesn't really cut it for me, in its own right although something to build on) 

Danny1312 wrote:

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What are people thoughts on Wimbledon WCs? Give them away regardless or only if people start to pick up? I love Brits in Wimbledon but starting to think if it's not on performances it seems like a gift unwarranted.

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 Its early days and performances will hopefully pick up. 

some should certainly go to Brits and will - its how many and who that will be decided over the next few weeks! 

9vicman wrote:

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Personally I think Wimbledon wild cards should be based on a 12 month criteria, and only given to other players if they have an exceptional grass court season.

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 A 12 month criteria- ie rankings? And deviate for exceptional grass? 

slide deviation - whats the policy now re the performances in the grass court challengers for non British players - if someone wins Birmingham, Ilkley or Nottingham and is outside main draw, theyve often given wild cards, although not a strict guarantee. But add in 3 for that policy and we are looking at maybe 5 wildcards max anyway to be available to Brits. Which seems fair - id struggle to justify anyone outside of 4 or more without a great grass court run. 

9vicman wrote:

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Yup, the rankings, because they represent overall performance, and we're talking big money here. Think last 6 months should take precedence in case someone has fallen off a cliff recently despite maintaining a reasonably high ranking.

But I don't like the idea of someone qualifying and reaching the semifinals of Ilkley having precedence over someone who has been a consistently better performer.

That said, I would give a promising junior a wild card over the likes of Marni Banks and Lily Miyazaki. Realise I posting this comment in a men's chat!

Also, don't see any reason why international winners of men's Challengers can't play Qualifying and earn their spot.

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 I think for a couple of years, the LTA promoted the challenger win equals MDWC thing. I was at Ilkley and within half an hour of the end, Wimbledon called Koepfer on court to announce his wild card and there was a general anticipation whoever won it would get one. 

But I actually agree - I think they promoted the idea to promote the challengers when the Trophy series was quite new - it is established now and doesnt need the promotion in that way. Although if someone winning a challenger pre Wimbledon also has been doing interesting things or has a strong palmares, I would think they will consider awarding one - but also to a player doing well in the ATP Tour events on grass, that isnt qualified, they will get considered - I recall van der zandschulp getting one off the back of a strong NL week, I think I am right in that?   

brittak wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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Danny1312 wrote:

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What are people thoughts on Wimbledon WCs? Give them away regardless or only if people start to pick up? I love Brits in Wimbledon but starting to think if it's not on performances it seems like a gift unwarranted.

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 Its early days and performances will hopefully pick up. 

 

some should certainly go to Brits and will - its how many and who that will be decided over the next few weeks! 

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I am offering this up for discussion. . . .(and I am sure I will be shot down into pieces)

 

I might be overreacting based on the poor performance this week and maybe this should all be for a different thread but I think there is perhaps a need to be hard on WCs this year both for main draw and qualifying. The rankings dont lie and, as largely been proven this week, if the players arent good enough, they dont get in without WC assistance.

Assuming Billy is in (as has been suggested elsewhere) to the MD, that is 4 players. Disappointing as it might be that should be it. None of the 3 currently on the qualies list can compete at the MD level. I suppose you could make a slight case for Jay but to my mind that it is a stretch.

Looking further down it is really hard to make a case for anyone to leapfrog qualies into the main draw.

Now looking at qualies, we have three players currently in. JoMo is 19th on the Alts list.

In thinking who should be bumped up (if anyone), again we need to be hard. Cut off for qualifying is 225 and they have amassed 246 ranking points to get there.

So i was thinking that the only players who should be considered are those that have achieved 120 points so far this year - not an exact reasoning but hopefully you get the point - and therefore could be reasonably expected to get 240 points in a 12 month period i.e. achieving what would be the required standard for entry. And demonstrating that for the year to date, they have been on reasonable form (this week excepted).

Sadly there are only 2 players who would make it on that calculation, Crawford (164) and Peniston (126). Loffhagen is on the cusp at 118.

For information, JoMo is on 99, Gray 96, Hussey 87, Searle 69, Parker 61, Broom 55, Jubb 32, JPJ 24.

these and any others need a clear case to be made rather than just handed out e.g. the college boys?

The rest should then go into the WC play-offs and earn their place that way.

 

This is just some thinking and was wondering about others opinions but as I said at the start, maybe this is the time to show there is no easy way in.

 

Sorry vicman - just seen your earlier post. Think we might be approaching this in a similar way.

-- Edited by brittak on Tuesday 3rd of June 2025 05:03:37 PM

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This is kind of what I was getting at! Those players under the 120 still have chances to pick up points before Wimbledon as well... right now there aren't any you could chuck wildcards at and think they have a chance of winning other than Jay possibly as mentioned.

Giving wildcards to just probably lose seems daft, I know the money is good, and maybe it is reactionary to this week but they have weeks to change that still. But if it doesn't change and we all hope it does I agree with all of the above. 

brittak wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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Danny1312 wrote:

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What are people thoughts on Wimbledon WCs? Give them away regardless or only if people start to pick up? I love Brits in Wimbledon but starting to think if it's not on performances it seems like a gift unwarranted.

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 Its early days and performances will hopefully pick up. 

 

some should certainly go to Brits and will - its how many and who that will be decided over the next few weeks! 

---

I am offering this up for discussion. . . .(and I am sure I will be shot down into pieces)

 

I might be overreacting based on the poor performance this week and maybe this should all be for a different thread but I think there is perhaps a need to be hard on WCs this year both for main draw and qualifying. The rankings dont lie and, as largely been proven this week, if the players arent good enough, they dont get in without WC assistance.

Assuming Billy is in (as has been suggested elsewhere) to the MD, that is 4 players. Disappointing as it might be that should be it. None of the 3 currently on the qualies list can compete at the MD level. I suppose you could make a slight case for Jay but to my mind that it is a stretch.

Looking further down it is really hard to make a case for anyone to leapfrog qualies into the main draw.

Now looking at qualies, we have three players currently in. JoMo is 19th on the Alts list.

In thinking who should be bumped up (if anyone), again we need to be hard. Cut off for qualifying is 225 and they have amassed 246 ranking points to get there.

So i was thinking that the only players who should be considered are those that have achieved 120 points so far this year - not an exact reasoning but hopefully you get the point - and therefore could be reasonably expected to get 240 points in a 12 month period i.e. achieving what would be the required standard for entry. And demonstrating that for the year to date, they have been on reasonable form (this week excepted).

Sadly there are only 2 players who would make it on that calculation, Crawford (164) and Peniston (126). Loffhagen is on the cusp at 118.

For information, JoMo is on 99, Gray 96, Hussey 87, Searle 69, Parker 61, Broom 55, Jubb 32, JPJ 24.

these and any others need a clear case to be made rather than just handed out e.g. the college boys?

The rest should then go into the WC play-offs and earn their place that way.

 

This is just some thinking and was wondering about others opinions but as I said at the start, maybe this is the time to show there is no easy way in.

 

Sorry vicman - just seen your earlier post. Think we might be approaching this in a similar way.

-- Edited by brittak on Tuesday 3rd of June 2025 05:03:37 PM

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 It makes a lot of sense looked at informally this way. And Id certainly say a good case for Oli C and Ryan P, for different reasons, anyway. Im not sure your points come from but a 6 month period would be the Race YTD- on that, Jay has 205, OlI C 164, Ryan 160 and George Loffhagen is on 118. 

would those 4 not meet your criteria - perhaps you are using different points to the Race? 

but the idea makes sense, agreed