British Tennis Forum

Peter too · Tennis legend

Week 19 - WTA1000 - Rome, Italy Clay

Mervatron2 · Challenger qualifying

Solid week and still building that ranking the right way.

With more and more matches and playing th top players shell continue to improve and start beating them.

I just feel like Emma needs to win a title for things to click. That may well come in the grass season.

B00thy · Intermediate Club Player

I saw the end of the first set and the beginning of the 2nd.

Here's the thing with Emma .. people have short memories. Only a few months ago she was coming back from major surgery rehab.

She played below average stuff in BJK and everybody raved about her. Then while she was quite rightly ensuring she was recovering well by not playing matches, some folk were saying she's not playing enough. That her team or sponsors were controlling her.

We have all known for the last 6 months that she has potentially great weapons in her serve and ground strokes but the serve in particular is brittle, and the overhead and drive volley is poor. For whatever reason (but probably due to her lack of trust in the brittle parts of her game) she loses confidence and goes into her shell.

Throughout the last 6 months she has chosen to play a high percentage of shots to the centre of the court. As she's started to come out of her shell and use more power she's got away with that. Before clay.

Against top 20 level players, and/or on clay, she can't create winners by playing centrally. To craft points she needs to play with less margin than that. She will work at doing all these. Her serve will become more reliable, she will volley to where her opponent isn't and she will play with less margin for error that better players can.

She has come so far since the autumn. And I feel she is over-achieving at the moment, as she's got to 40-something with a game which is about 75% of her capability. So I'm super happy that she's achieving what she's achieving but I wish there was time for her to take 2-3 weeks out and improve her reliability. Until then let's be happy we've got her playing.

wales1994 · County player

Yeah, Coco was just better in every department. But another good week for Emma, 3 wins on her worst surface against good-level opponents. And as Mervatron just said, still building that ranking in the right way.

I do think she's improving and has been the most consistent she has been in terms of results since the US Open. She has no points to defend at the French, so hopefully can win a few rounds to set herself up for possible seedings during the grass and hardcourt season.

indiana · Tennis legend

Good to see Emma's continued progress when she plays some tennis. I have always retained the faith as I probably say too much.

Bit confused by some parts of BOOthy's post. The "below average stuff in BJK Cup" bit to an extent but more particuiarly re "only a few months ago she was.coming back from major surgery rehab" and the questioning of some of our questioning re her scheduie gaps.

First, she returned to tour 16 months ago and yes, take it carefully at first and to an extent still in rehab. But we, and she herself Iater on if I recall right, questioned her big playing gap after last year's Wimbledon and this year I think legitimate questions were asked about how relatively little she had actually played overall from the Aus Open until pulling out of the BJK Cup, including never playing qualifying, when she appeared to need matches. But what we had from a rep ( I wish more came from Emma herself ) was vague stuff about looking after her body. If she has had injury / niggle concerms fair dos, but with no more concrete info than that, the time now back, and the mysterious gaps in her schedule, I think many of the questions raised here have been perfectly legitimate.

indiana · Tennis legend

I think we have known for many years that she has potentially great weapons in her serve and ground strokes

Years ago she had a consistent lovely service action and it looked like it could develop into a real weapon in the years come ( it already was on its best days ). In recent times we have often not known what we wouid get from one day to the next, apart from it wouldn't be a weapon. It has settled down more of late and hopefully Petchey and/or whoever can really work with her to make it a real strength in the future.
.
Combine that with much more consistently aggressive ground strokes and she could really be motoring foward again.

B00thy · Intermediate Club Player

indiana wrote:
Good to see Emma's continued progress when she plays some tennis. I have always retained the faith as I probably say too much.

Bit confused by some parts of BOOthy's post. The "below average stuff in BJK Cup" bit to an extent but more particuiarly re "only a few months ago she was.coming back from major surgery rehab" and the questioning of some of our questioning re her scheduie gaps.

First, she returned to tour 16 months ago and yes, take it carefully at first and to an extent still in rehab. But we, and she herself Iater on if I recall right, questioned her big playing gap after last year's Wimbledon and this year I think legitimate questions were asked about how relatively little she had actually played overall from the Aus Open until pulling out of the BJK Cup, including never playing qualifying, when she appeared to need matches. But what we had from a rep ( I wish more came from Emma herself ) was vague stuff about looking after her body. If she has had injury / niggle concerms fair dos, but with no more concrete info than that, the time now back, and the mysterious gaps in her schedule, I think many of the questions raised here have been perfectly legitimate.

Yes, I was a little ambiguous about my thoughts in a couple of places wasn't I? Sorry about that

Yes it's been many months calendar-wise but she has taken it so slowly, and with such care, to ensure she doesn't threaten her physical health, that the sharpness one might have expected from many athletes has taken much longer. The BJK I am referring to, is when she played, i.e. in November, 6 months ago. She played a Canadian 100+ and a Slovakian in the mid-200's. She was very clunky and below average, but she won. She has continued to build from there, along with some odd choices, along the way. But I feel that really, it is only this year, in some ways, that she is having her first proper season, with her game maybe 90% assembled.

I'm not questioning our questions, as it were. The questions are entirely reasonable, because some were baffling, taking a break when it seemed she needed match practice. And it was frustrating that hints and suggestions come from a 3rd party as opposed to clarity from Emma herself.

But she followed the course she wanted to take, and where it has got her, is injury-free in May, having reached 40+

And having taken that course she maybe hasn't had the coaching has needed on the deficiencies in her game.

I'm frustrated because I feel she could be sitting here close to top 25, a lot more of her game complete and resilient, ready to go a few rounds at FO then semis Wimbledon. As it is, despite her not being as hardened as I would like, I am so grateful to watch her playing aggressive tennis, even if I watch with the dread that she's about to back off and let her opponent back into the match.

christ · Futures level

Peter too wrote:
... four matches to develop her clay court game, the surface she is least experienced on.

According to the BBC that is 21 matches on clay, 20 on grass.

wimbledont · Lower Club Player

According to the ITF, her weakest surface is grass...

www.itftennis.com/en/players/emma-raducanu/800424313/gbr/wt/s/overview/

Var · Satellite level

B00thy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Good to see Emma's continued progress when she plays some tennis. I have always retained the faith as I probably say too much.

Bit confused by some parts of BOOthy's post. The "below average stuff in BJK Cup" bit to an extent but more particuiarly re "only a few months ago she was.coming back from major surgery rehab" and the questioning of some of our questioning re her scheduie gaps.

First, she returned to tour 16 months ago and yes, take it carefully at first and to an extent still in rehab. But we, and she herself Iater on if I recall right, questioned her big playing gap after last year's Wimbledon and this year I think legitimate questions were asked about how relatively little she had actually played overall from the Aus Open until pulling out of the BJK Cup, including never playing qualifying, when she appeared to need matches. But what we had from a rep ( I wish more came from Emma herself ) was vague stuff about looking after her body. If she has had injury / niggle concerms fair dos, but with no more concrete info than that, the time now back, and the mysterious gaps in her schedule, I think many of the questions raised here have been perfectly legitimate.
Yes, I was a little ambiguous about my thoughts in a couple of places wasn't I? Sorry about that
Yes it's been many months calendar-wise but she has taken it so slowly, and with such care, to ensure she doesn't threaten her physical health, that the sharpness one might have expected from many athletes has taken much longer. The BJK I am referring to, is when she played, i.e. in November, 6 months ago. She played a Canadian 100+ and a Slovakian in the mid-200's. She was very clunky and below average, but she won. She has continued to build from there, along with some odd choices, along the way. But I feel that really, it is only this year, in some ways, that she is having her first proper season, with her game maybe 90% assembled.
I'm not questioning our questions, as it were. The questions are entirely reasonable, because some were baffling, taking a break when it seemed she needed match practice. And it was frustrating that hints and suggestions come from a 3rd party as opposed to clarity from Emma herself.
But she followed the course she wanted to take, and where it has got her, is injury-free in May, having reached 40+
And having taken that course she maybe hasn't had the coaching has needed on the deficiencies in her game.
I'm frustrated because I feel she could be sitting here close to top 25, a lot more of her game complete and resilient, ready to go a few rounds at FO then semis Wimbledon. As it is, despite her not being as hardened as I would like, I am so grateful to watch her playing aggressive tennis, even if I watch with the dread that she's about to back off and let her opponent back into the match.

800thy I agree with you. I think having Teichman to face was a gift, although I am happy to see her get a stroke of luck. If Emma could win a tour title like Sonay it would help. Still a way to go on this journey. I was a little alarmed when she said a few weeks ago her coaching set up was going well but nothing too technical. That worries me as lack of technique shows and was highlighted by Platenik.

dodrade · Futures qualifying

wimbledont wrote:
According to the ITF, her weakest surface is grass...

www.itftennis.com/en/players/emma-raducanu/800424313/gbr/wt/s/overview/

I think those figures are skewed by missing most of the 2022 and all of the 2023 Grass court season, plus having a relatively successful clay swing this year. If she stays fit you'd expect those numbers to be quite different after Wimbledon.

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

Sheddie wrote:
Would love to know kundalini's future forecast for Emma's clay court career? I remember reading a kundalini analysis of a young Andy's clay court game back in 2006, forecasting that while he had a lot of learning to do on the surface, he had the tools to one day make a Roland Garros final, which he duly did a decade later.

Your memory is a lot better than mine. I remember thinking Harriet would be a 150 to 200 player for the majority of her career; that one wasn't so accurate.

To answer your question, if you think through Emma's weapons when she won the US Open, then consider whether they have the same penetration on clay, it is clear that many of them simply don't have the same impact.

For example, 2nd serve return she stepped into the court, taking the ball early, rushing her opponent, who would find it difficult to keep the ball in play, or might present Emma with the opportunity to hit a relatively straightforward winner. Her sliced 1st serve from the deuce side caused a lot of damage at the US Open; while there have been a few aces in that direction in Rome, some opponents have hit return winners from sliced 1st serves. Then there were the stunning, crouching, forehand winners - not seen any of those on clay.

She is capable of blasting her 1st serve out wide, it was impressive during the early part of her 1st clay season, especially during the outstanding performance against Marta Kostyuk in Madrid 2022. But her body appears unable to blast the ball match after match. When she lost at Roland Garros to Sasnovich, her 1st set performance was decent but she got crushed in the 2nd and 3rd sets when simply getting 1st serves in play, as something was preventing her from blasting her 1st serve. Against Coco Gauff there was a noticeable lack of blasted serves out wide on the advantage side. Since this has been Emma's most effective serve on clay, I wonder if physical issues explain why she wasn't attempting it.

Her relatively fast 2nd serve worked well in the US Open but is far less effective on clay, to the extent that it has been replaced by a kick serve, that currently lacks penetration. Her volley skills, which looked underused at the US Open, aren't precise enough for the tiny window you get on clay; she would need to spend a lot of time working on volleys.

In simple terms, on clay Emma needs to create a totally new approach that somehow suits her slim build and relative lack of power compared to many top WTA players. Her performance against Kostyuk in Madrid 2022 would be my reference point, though some of her wins on indoor clay (Stuttgart + BJK Cup) included impressive spells and the early Swiatek match in Stuttgart seemed encouraging, though Emma didn't recognise the moment when she had to attack.

I think her Roland Garros peak will be R16, with an outside possibility of QF. Might reach QF of Madrid or Rome (would need to be sunny) at some stage.

Sheddie · administrator

Interesting assessment!

Harriet has definitely maxed her talent in my opinion - which is a huge plus, considering that in previous generations, we had many such players who struggled to make it into the top 150 for any length of time.

I remember with Andy, you noted the strength of his backhand down the line, which back in the mid 2000s, made you feel that he might one day go deep at Roland Garros. He did then transform his clay court game to become one of the best players in the world on the dirt between 2011 and 2017.

Good points with Emma on the clay neutralising some of her strengths, while she maybe currently lacks the physical resilience to back up one gruelling match after another. Having said this, strange things can happen at Roland Garros with upsets and draws opening up. I never thought Jo Konta would make the semis, and at one point look as though she might actually win the title that year.

Peter too · Tennis legend

Emma is enjoying herself so much that she has decided to fit another tournament in before the French Open, she has been offered a WC for Strasbourg.

indiana · Tennis legend

Ha, her body must feel well looked after.

Anyway, all being well I like it. She historically has built and played well off her relatively few pretty busy schedules, indeed busier than of late.