Week 11 - ATP Challenger 175 - Copa Cap Ciudad Destino - Cap Cana, Dominican Republic (hard)

alex03maccy · Grand Slam Champion

Week 11 - ATP Challenger 175 - Copa Cap Ciudad Destino - Cap Cana, Dominican Republic (hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

Yet, yet ( and taking on board other comments and how proud Billy should already be ), just to be top 100 for one week, to always be able to say and have others day that you were a top 100 ranked player, especially given the path he has followed to get where he now is, it would just be soo good.

He has been ranked 101. 100 and 101 may be just numbers but such significantly different numbers for tennis CHs.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Yet, yet ( and taking on board other comments and how proud Billy should already be ), just to be top 100 for one week, to always be able to say and have others day that you were a top 100 ranked player, especially given the path he has followed to get where he now is, it would just be soo good.

He has been ranked 101. 100 and 101 may be just numbers but such significantly different numbers for tennis CHs.

I know, right? So much want him to get there for that reason alone. Not sure of his plans through spring - he is playing Miami qualies (currently listed 13th in qualies, will be seeded and 12 get through) and then Menorca (where he is going to be possibly top seed looking at the entry list).

Menorca is on clay, so it would seem Billy is going down the clay court route through to the FO as opposed to hitting hardcourts out in Asia or wherever.

Sheddie · administrator

Billy does have an ability to rise to the big occasion though, which Boggo, for all his natural talent, never quite mastered and perhaps struggled more as his career progressed.

We shouldn't forget that Billy has made FQR at three of the four slams over the past year, and won on his Davis Cup debut. Boggo often disappointed at the slams - apart from one outstanding run in 2004 where he qualified for the US Open, I don't think he came close to qualifying in Australia or Paris, or New York again.

And while Boggo won plenty of challengers, he never quite managed to bring it when the spotlight was really on (although I always felt he got harshly treated with his record at Wimbledon - he had some truly stinking draws - Federer, Nadal, Berdych, and never landed one of those grass-hating clay courters)

9vicman · Satellite level

Interesting reflections Sheddie. As you say, Boggo did have Challenger success (9 titles to Billy's none), and was a Top 200 player for four years. He played many more Top 100 players but his career record (17-50) is not much better than Billy's (10-15).

Coincidentally Liam's Top 100 record is 23-64 and he has 2 Challenger titles. But of course he finally cracked the Top 100 and had those two 3rd round appearances at Wimbledon and a 3rd round appearance at Tokyo 2020.

Unfortunately injury meant that he wasn't able to build on the best form of his life, so the breakthrough was snuffed out almost as soon as it came. But even without the career-high ranking, it was a much more successful career.

Jake Fearnley's Top 100 record is already 7-7.

Sheddie · administrator

Interesting stats, thanks for sharing 9vicman!

Didn't realise that Boggo was only a top 200 player for four years, given that he was a mainstay of the British tennis scene for well over a decade - I remember his big breakthrough making the final at the National Championships in Telford in 2001 (which back then was essentially a 'Best of the Rest' competition for all the Brits except Tim & Greg), which kickstarted the Bogmania for everyone looking for the next big thing in British tennis.

But he was always a streaky player, and the top 200 stat shows how he struggled to maintain consistency, even though everyone felt that with his range of strokes, he could have been a top 50 player (perhaps in hindsight, we all expected a bit too much). There were a few moments, especially in that 2003-2008 spell where Boggo was probably at his peak, which felt like they could have been turning points for his career, but he wasn't able to get over the line with any of them. Ones which really stick in the mind are:

- US Open 2004: Boggo qualified and was two sets to one up against unheralded Spaniard Alex Calatrava, but ran out of gas and lost in 5. Looking back, probably his best chance to win a match at a slam.

- Bangkok 2006: One of the best years of his career, I think he won three challengers, made the final of another and the quarters in ATP Newport. He played the ATP event in Bangkok and was up against Henman in the second round. Levelled the match at one set all, but started slowly in the third and it slipped away. The points would have pushed him closer to the top 100, but I think the psychological boost of beating Tim would have been huge for him.

- Queens 2007: That was the year, he came closest to the top 100. Had the best run of his career at Queens, reaching the third round where he was within a couple of points of beating Roddick in straight sets, but again, slipped through his fingers.

- Davis Cup 2008: Painful, painful memories. I was at that World Group playoff between GB and Austria. Andy won his 2 singles, but we'd lost the doubles and at the end of day 3, it was Boggo vs Alex Peya, another journeyman, to decide the tie. Boggo went a set (and maybe a break up) but faded and lost in 4. He got pretty brutally vilified in the press after that and was never really the same player again. But if he'd won....

Liam is an interesting comparison because he had such a sterling junior career, even more so than Boggo. Junior Grand Slam finalist at both Wimbledon and the US Open, and won two doubles slams. So, while if we put their game styles side by side, Liam might seem like the more workmanlike player, we should perhaps expect him to have had the higher ceiling. He's certainly always been a mentally tougher competitor - every time he's had a big opportunity in his career, he's really taken it.

James Ward is the player that comes to mind when I think about Billy. Late bloomer, but a guy who maxxed ever inch out of his career and rose to the occasion when he got the chance. Compared with Boggo he only won 4 challenger titles, but when it mattered, he got the big wins - Davis Cup, third round at Wimbledon, Queens semifinalist.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Sheddie wrote:
Interesting stats, thanks for sharing 9vicman!

Didn't realise that Boggo was only a top 200 player for four years, given that he was a mainstay of the British tennis scene for well over a decade - I remember his big breakthrough making the final at the National Championships in Telford in 2001 (which back then was essentially a 'Best of the Rest' competition for all the Brits except Tim & Greg), which kickstarted the Bogmania for everyone looking for the next big thing in British tennis.

But he was always a streaky player, and the top 200 stat shows how he struggled to maintain consistency, even though everyone felt that with his range of strokes, he could have been a top 50 player (perhaps in hindsight, we all expected a bit too much). There were a few moments, especially in that 2003-2008 spell where Boggo was probably at his peak, which felt like they could have been turning points for his career, but he wasn't able to get over the line with any of them. Ones which really stick in the mind are:

- US Open 2004: Boggo qualified and was two sets to one up against unheralded Spaniard Alex Calatrava, but ran out of gas and lost in 5. Looking back, probably his best chance to win a match at a slam.

- Bangkok 2006: One of the best years of his career, I think he won three challengers, made the final of another and the quarters in ATP Newport. He played the ATP event in Bangkok and was up against Henman in the second round. Levelled the match at one set all, but started slowly in the third and it slipped away. The points would have pushed him closer to the top 100, but I think the psychological boost of beating Tim would have been huge for him.

- Queens 2007: That was the year, he came closest to the top 100. Had the best run of his career at Queens, reaching the third round where he was within a couple of points of beating Roddick in straight sets, but again, slipped through his fingers.

- Davis Cup 2008: Painful, painful memories. I was at that World Group playoff between GB and Austria. Andy won his 2 singles, but we'd lost the doubles and at the end of day 3, it was Boggo vs Alex Peya, another journeyman, to decide the tie. Boggo went a set (and maybe a break up) but faded and lost in 4. He got pretty brutally vilified in the press after that and was never really the same player again. But if he'd won....

Liam is an interesting comparison because he had such a sterling junior career, even more so than Boggo. Junior Grand Slam finalist at both Wimbledon and the US Open, and won two doubles slams. So, while if we put their game styles side by side, Liam might seem like the more workmanlike player, we should perhaps expect him to have had the higher ceiling. He's certainly always been a mentally tougher competitor - every time he's had a big opportunity in his career, he's really taken it.

James Ward is the player that comes to mind when I think about Billy. Late bloomer, but a guy who maxxed ever inch out of his career and rose to the occasion when he got the chance. Compared with Boggo he only won 4 challenger titles, but when it mattered, he got the big wins - Davis Cup, third round at Wimbledon, Queens semifinalist.

I was also at this (Wimbledon) in 2008 but on the Friday - I remember seeing Boggo up first, v Melzer, and winning the opening set, but it just got away from him. It was Court One, new at the time, and I remember it feeling quite damp and slow and Melzer just overpowered him with ground strokes. It felt like Boggo had great style but little powerful impact - interesting that in the final rubber versus Peya, he also won the first set and fell away and some of your other comments suggest that may have been a pattern for him, whether nerves or fitness? Maybe it wasnt a pattern, haha.

9vicman · Satellite level

Now James Ward, think he's a step up in terms of success, although he never ended a season inside the Top 100. Five Top 200 year end-finishes and career-high ranking of No. 86. And over 100 Top 100 opponents with a win-loss of 27-78.

Bur some memorable highs: that win over Tursunov to start GB's Davis Cup run, and battling wins over Querrey in 2014 and Isner in 2015. And a Davis Cup trophy even though he didn't play in the Final.

Then there was that run at Queen's, and within a whisker of a Wimbledon 4th round appearance (ironically like Broady).

But while a good player, he also had the advantage of being British No. 2 while outside the Top 100 so got opportunities the others didn't get. Wasn't that long ago when it was Andy plus who?

wales1994 · County player

Interesting discussion. The mention of Ward took me back! Billy has worked really hard, gotten to a high I don't think many of us would've ever expected from him - and at a pretty late age. He's definitely worked his butt off, and hopefully he can get that cherry on the cake to say 'I was once a top 100 player'. As someone mentioned, if he manages to stayi in this 100-200 range for the next few years - he'll make a decent living from slam quallies and some bigger events.

Bogdanovice had great groundstrokes, a decent serve and nice volleys. But to me he never seemed to have the physicality to be 'there'. Some counterparts at the time spring to mind like Jamie Baker and Josh Goodall. Baker qualified twice at the Australian Open, he was a player that didn't quite have the highest potential with his game - but he maximised it! Goodall seemed to have a big game too - qualified for the US Open one year. But again, never quite pushed on.

But again, I don't think the current state of British men's tennis looks bad in general. We have Draper knocking on the top 10, we had Norrie in the top 10 not long ago (admittedly he is looking a shadow of his former self right now), we have Fearnley looking a top 100 mainstay. We had Evans reach a solid career, again now on the decline, but 6 year-ends in the top 100 - 2 GS 4th rounds and a 500 / 250 titles. I think we've had some much better years recently than we had in that 2000-2010 period. But obviously we had Murray at the very top in that period. There are also some players who could really spring on if they can get lucky with injury free periods (Fery, Loffhagen, Monday).

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Late 90s, Chris Wilkinson was another in a similar category - wins 3 challengers, got to Wimbledon third round 4 times ? Career high ranking of 114, knocking on that door. It was 1993 he reached that CH level but he reached Wimbledon third round as late as 1998; kept on pushing away but never quite got there.

Again, was a steady and good looking player but lacked the power game to rise higher