The 'Depth' of British Men's Tennis

Spectator · All-time great

The 'Depth' of British Men's Tennis

EddietheEagle · County player

Quote CD: "Given his age (both actual and the fact he was a rather 'immature' bloke, which is not meant as a criticism) and his potential and the amount the LTA had invested in him already, I think the LTA most certainly could have handled things a LOT better: it's their job.:

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It is their job or it ought to be. You'll find though that 90% of the LTA's money, personnel resources etc are directed toward the management and promotion of ATP/WTA and ITF professional tennis events that constitute the grass court season as shoulder events to Wimbledon. That's where the concentration lies. Wimbledon money gets effectively recycled back into Wimbledon. The LTA functions as little more than a vassal organisation to the All England hegemony where they'll be more blown on a single roof than the entire construction budget for the rest of the UK.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Monday 23rd of January 2017 11:28:02 AM

Otto · Social player

Coup Droit wrote:
Oli G dropping tennis was directly linked to the LTA's actions. I'm not saying the LTA were wrong, as such, but it's how it happened.

Oli was doing fine (enough), part of the NTC group, and the chosen few, and all looked hunky dory (in general).
But in a short space of time, various things happened, including:
the NTC closed as a training hub for the top players (which was more of a major blow to Oli than others because he lives so close);
the LTA wanted him to skip Wimbledon and go to the States (with Liam etc). Oli refused and the LTA got the hump;
Oli went on a tour to Kazakhstan etc. with no coach/trainer (coz the LTA weren;t playing ball any more) and had a pretty miserable time;
Oli quit.

Given his age (both actual and the fact he was a rather 'immature' bloke, which is not meant as a criticism) and his potential and the amount the LTA had invested in him already, I think the LTA most certainly could have handled things a LOT better: it's their job.

I think in Oli's case, ultimately it was his personality that made him stop playing. However in his defence he was badly managed during his short time in the limelight. The question I would ask is, for any young teenager how much of their developing personality is in their DNA, and how much of it is a product of their environment?

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Otto wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Oli G dropping tennis was directly linked to the LTA's actions. I'm not saying the LTA were wrong, as such, but it's how it happened.

Oli was doing fine (enough), part of the NTC group, and the chosen few, and all looked hunky dory (in general).
But in a short space of time, various things happened, including:
the NTC closed as a training hub for the top players (which was more of a major blow to Oli than others because he lives so close);
the LTA wanted him to skip Wimbledon and go to the States (with Liam etc). Oli refused and the LTA got the hump;
Oli went on a tour to Kazakhstan etc. with no coach/trainer (coz the LTA weren;t playing ball any more) and had a pretty miserable time;
Oli quit.

Given his age (both actual and the fact he was a rather 'immature' bloke, which is not meant as a criticism) and his potential and the amount the LTA had invested in him already, I think the LTA most certainly could have handled things a LOT better: it's their job.
I think in Oli's case, ultimately it was his personality that made him stop playing. However in his defence he was badly managed during his short time in the limelight. The question I would ask is, for any young teenager how much of their developing personality is in their DNA, and how much of it is a product of their environment?

Overall the LTA gave Oli more than enough support to an age where he was old enough to go it alone. Oli failed because he was immature, unmanageable and nowhere near as good as some of you on here think he was.

Typical of some to blame the LTA yet again because of an individual's shortcomings.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

This is not a point of principle. The LTA and British tennis may have been 'right', that they'd had enough, because Golding was immature etc. etc. etc. But their job is to get the best out of their top youngsters and they didn't. (Nor with Morgan, JWH, and many others). The state of British elite tennis is judged by the number of top players; the LTA don't have many and they let a very good prospect get away. Dropping him completely in one fell-swoop is a daft way to act, no matter what support you've given before.
The point is that many youngsters in their late teens are 'difficult'; can you imagine how the authorities felt about Monfils? Or Paire?
I agree that (without much knowledge) it always seemed to me that those around Oli had done him no favours, and he had no idea how to deal with losing, or not being a big fish in a small sea. But (a) that's partly - although not majorly - to be laid at the feet of the LTA anyway, and (b) that's not that unusual, there are ways to help, and ways to be stuffy about it and dig your heels in and end up exactly where we are now. Insisting that they all miss Wimbledon, for instance, was a very strange and high-handed, one-size-fits-all order.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I have to say that I don't like the word "failed" and I think we need to be clear on how we define it in any particular situation.

Essentially, Oli didn't make a career out of tennis because HE CHOSE a different career path. Whether or not he was capable of making a career from tennis had he continued, is a different question and one that will no doubt be debated by people on both sides of the fence so to speak. That is what this forum is for and why we enjoy it so much. But in the end, we will never know for sure - unless of course Oli does a big U-turn and wins a couple of slams.

As to the personality aspect, I think we sometimes forget how tough it is for players making their way up through the ranks. It is definitely fair to say that Oli's personality did not match that lifestyle and he has basically said as much himself. But the fact that he was able to make such a decision for himself and chose a different path at such a young age, for me is a sign of maturity and not immaturity. Sure, mature people do immature things and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that Oli was no different than most others in that regard. But when I say that Oli's personality didn't suit the rigours of the tour, that is for me nothing more than a statement of fact and not a criticism in anyway of that personality.

As tennis fans, we have (had) been so starved of success that when we see a potential talent that in the end does not materialise, we can very easily get frustrated. But these are people we are talking about, not just tennis players. They must do what is right for them, either inside or outside tennis. And if that means we fans have to wait that bit longer for another star player to come along, that is our problem, and not that of the player concerned.

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Wednesday 25th of January 2017 11:41:00 AM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Generally I am in agreement, the LTA are faced with one hell of a challenge, if it was straight forward we would be knocking out an elite player annually. Depth comes from recruiting large volumes of elite athletes to the sport.

There are only 150 players of either sex playing singles who can break even annually, to earn a good living you have to be playing 4 slams a year which realistically means being in the top 100 and avoiding significant injury.

The pool of players athletically gifted enough to play at that level is small and how do you sell tennis and the enormous expenses involved to the parents of gifted athletes. The chance of success is very limited. In my life time we are talking, Mark Cox, Tim Henman, Andy Murray and the odd import, we can now potentially add Dan and Kyle who both stand a chance of making a decent living from singles that will sustain them through the rest of their lives. Both have received significant LTA support getting there.

The real athletes are being courted by football academies, even rugby academies. Generally children (more specifically boys) winning sporting scholarships to private schools will choose these options first. Children at state schools; for them in reality the costs are prohibitive, there is good money to be made in other sports but to take the tennis road requires enormous parental sacrifice with a very slim chance of success. It really puts Dan's even James Ward's achievements in context, statistically at birth they had a much better chance of being something mundane like a brain surgeon, I would also argue that even after selecting out able children at 8-12 and then giving them a decent education it still much easier to carve out a mundane career as suggested than make money on tour.

If you are a genuine athlete tennis is very unlikely to be on your radar, particularly in a temperate climate like ours, a good dose of annual sunshine makes tennis fun and easy to play as a kid and the opportunity to snare the odd elite athlete who enjoys the game. There are some very technically gifted young players in performance programmes but how many are gifted enough athletes to be considered for other sports. Many are educated privately but very few are sports scholars and most private schools offer them on a global assessment.

Watching Serena play today against JoKo was just that, two amazing athletes technically masters of their sport. To be fair LTA funding and support is entirely responsible for one of them being British. Britain was incapable of supplying the sunshine that facilitated her early development. The meterological dice are load against us, fix that and the LTA's job becomes much easier but it is what it is.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Wednesday 25th of January 2017 11:50:20 AM