Week 44 - WTA 250 - Hong Kong, China (outdoor hard)

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Week 44 - WTA 250 - Hong Kong, China (outdoor hard)

Barefoot · Lower Club Player

indiana wrote:
9vicman wrote:
I haven't been able to watch this week's matches, but curious as to how Katie has been playing compared with say her win in San Diego. Since then she's struggled against Top 50 players away from grass. It's been an amazing 18 months for her, with three WTA titles and a Top 25 ranking, but for me her movement is still an issue at the highest levels of the game. And I don't think she has the confidence she had on court earlier in the year.

Am very aware I am being critical of someone who has had quite an extraordinary rise and a credit to British tennis.
Yes, she has risen to ranking heights I never thought she would, especially midst her illness and injury problems.
Yet, yet, I feel there are issues like movement and consistency, and whisper it, she might be rather overranked.
On balance, of course there remains so much that is positive

Objectively though, she can't be overranked - she's won 2 titles against competitive competition this year (by that I mean they were both appropriate fields for the level of tournament!) and she's got a slate of decent counters with no vulturing involved. I do think when someone has a rise like this we sort of default to 'must be overranked' because we don't see them at that level? But in practice, the numbers don't lie and there are many who make this ranking level who have a random title/slam QF on their resume to bump them up.

As Jon says she knows her strengths and I'd argue knows that her ceiling is around here, you don't get to top 15 without an all court game which she clearly doesn't have. Unless she wins a slam by surprise, and we all know that can happen smile

On an aside Shnaider is top 5 waiting to happen, considering I think she was still in college last year this season has been spectacular.

adz1983 · Intermediate Club Player

Barefoot wrote:
indiana wrote:
9vicman wrote:
I haven't been able to watch this week's matches, but curious as to how Katie has been playing compared with say her win in San Diego. Since then she's struggled against Top 50 players away from grass. It's been an amazing 18 months for her, with three WTA titles and a Top 25 ranking, but for me her movement is still an issue at the highest levels of the game. And I don't think she has the confidence she had on court earlier in the year.

Am very aware I am being critical of someone who has had quite an extraordinary rise and a credit to British tennis.
Yes, she has risen to ranking heights I never thought she would, especially midst her illness and injury problems.
Yet, yet, I feel there are issues like movement and consistency, and whisper it, she might be rather overranked.
On balance, of course there remains so much that is positive
Objectively though, she can't be overranked - she's won 2 titles against competitive competition this year (by that I mean they were both appropriate fields for the level of tournament!) and she's got a slate of decent counters with no vulturing involved. I do think when someone has a rise like this we sort of default to 'must be overranked' because we don't see them at that level? But in practice, the numbers don't lie and there are many who make this ranking level who have a random title/slam QF on their resume to bump them up.
As Jon says she knows her strengths and I'd argue knows that her ceiling is around here, you don't get to top 15 without an all court game which she clearly doesn't have. Unless she wins a slam by surprise, and we all know that can happen
On an aside Shnaider is top 5 waiting to happen, considering I think she was still in college last year this season has been spectacular.

I agree with lots here. If you look at the next ranked player to win 2 tournaments this year you have to go up to 15th and Ostapenko. Who seemingly hasn't reached any other finals or even semifinals this year. If you go further up the rankings only Navarro in the top 10 has only one won tour level tournament (WTA250) but what you see in the top 10 is a greater level of consistency across the board especially in bigger tournaments. If Katie can start to reach Round of 16 and beyond in slams and have a few deeper runs in 1000s and 500s her ranking will continue to rise. I feel her priority now should be a good training block over the off season and hit the ground running Down Under. Time to take advantage of her seeding position at the Aus Open and start to rack up bigger points at bigger tournaments.

-- Edited by adz1983 on Monday 4th of November 2024 11:37:31 AM

SuperT · Futures level

Barefoot wrote:
indiana wrote:
9vicman wrote:
I haven't been able to watch this week's matches, but curious as to how Katie has been playing compared with say her win in San Diego. Since then she's struggled against Top 50 players away from grass. It's been an amazing 18 months for her, with three WTA titles and a Top 25 ranking, but for me her movement is still an issue at the highest levels of the game. And I don't think she has the confidence she had on court earlier in the year.

Am very aware I am being critical of someone who has had quite an extraordinary rise and a credit to British tennis.
Yes, she has risen to ranking heights I never thought she would, especially midst her illness and injury problems.
Yet, yet, I feel there are issues like movement and consistency, and whisper it, she might be rather overranked.
On balance, of course there remains so much that is positive
Objectively though, she can't be overranked - she's won 2 titles against competitive competition this year (by that I mean they were both appropriate fields for the level of tournament!) and she's got a slate of decent counters with no vulturing involved. I do think when someone has a rise like this we sort of default to 'must be overranked' because we don't see them at that level? But in practice, the numbers don't lie and there are many who make this ranking level who have a random title/slam QF on their resume to bump them up.
As Jon says she knows her strengths and I'd argue knows that her ceiling is around here, you don't get to top 15 without an all court game which she clearly doesn't have. Unless she wins a slam by surprise, and we all know that can happen
On an aside Shnaider is top 5 waiting to happen, considering I think she was still in college last year this season has been spectacular.

Katie's achilles heel is the problem she has playing on clay. She has just 3 mandatory 10 point counters for the whole clay court season which obviously limit her points total for the year. If she could find a way to win just a couple of early round matches at RG and the clay court Masters events, she could actually push her points tally even further, although I do agree she is probably quite close to her ceiling. She has certainly exceeded my expectations for this year and I agree with earlier comments which suggested that Alex seems to have had a really positive effect on her performances.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

A few top players have learned to adapt their games to clay over the years by playing their fast court game on clay and not trying to be clay courters. Henman was on in his 2004 semis run at RG and earlier that year as well; Sampras and Becker did it, Edberg as well, but not consistently - sort of big peak performances. Johan Kriek was the one who stood out for me, when he made a semi run with no clay court pedigree of any sort.

I dont have any women equivalents, I am sure there are some, but Katie maybe needs to play her own game on clay and not learn to be a better clay courter by playing clay court tennis, per se!

wales1994 · County player

Well, Konta did the same and ended up making the semis at the French and finals of Rome / Rabat.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

wales1994 wrote:
Well, Konta did the same and ended up making the semis at the French and finals of Rome / Rabat.

There you go! Closer to home than I imagined!

HarryGem · Club Coach

JonH comes home wrote:
wales1994 wrote:
Well, Konta did the same and ended up making the semis at the French and finals of Rome / Rabat.
There you go! Closer to home than I imagined!

In fairly recent times I'd say Sharapova would be the best example of a player not brought up on clay, whose movement was not naturally the best on the surface yet turned it into her most successful surface in terms of slam wins.

Katie has had a great season by any measure and though the final game was a disappointment she simply ran out of gas I believe. She's greatly benefited from intelligent scheduling and has picked up points in what, in all fairness, have been some quite weak tournaments. But then you can only beat the player on the other side of the net.

What the last few weeks have shown is that the season is long and if you can stay fit there are tournament and points to be won when the fields are weaker in the last few weeks. Look at Golubic winning her first tournament at full tour level in 8 years for eg.

But Katie is rightly our number one and has improved her game immensely this season. No longer just a big serve and forehand. I'd say her net play could improve and she could add some variety at times rather than just hitting big all the time. Not sure how much higher she can get but I'm going to enjoy the journey.