Weeks 33 & 34 - ATP Masters 1000 - Cincinnati, OH, USA

seagull · Hall of fame

Weeks 33 & 34 - ATP Masters 1000 - Cincinnati, OH, USA

SuperT · Futures level

Even on this thread there are at least 3 different interpretations of what happened, presumably after people had watched the slow motion very carefully, so it's hardly surprising the umpire couldn't tell after seeing it in real time. I'm still not sure. It looked to me as though the ball hit the racket and the ground at virtually the same time and then bounced up but I couldn't be sure. In the circumstances replaying the point would have been a good call I think. Sadly in these days of media trolling I have a horrible feeling Jack will get a lot of grief in the next round and probably at the US Open too.

9vicman · Satellite level

The last point really shouldn't overshadow three gutsy wins by Jack Draper, two over world class opponents, and a sign he is continuing to move in the right direction at a time when the other leading British men are struggling.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

The courts here are said to be super fast and a win over a really inform FAA was really good. Certainly, on this court, Rune is beatable by Jack. Hurkacz or Tiafoe in the semis, probably Hurkacz will be very tough and the top half is stronger still. But feels like a semi should be Jacks genuine ambition. And then lets see.

indiana · Tennis legend

Pity.

Difficult for others to tell including the umpire but it looks fairly clear that one person who knew it wasn't right was Jack.

We so admire those who admit to faults that had gone undetected. And I am afraid I do judge negatively anyone who doesn't fess up to a fault.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

For the record:

L16: Jack Draper WR 27 defeated Félix Auger-Aliassime (CAN) WR 19 by 5-7 6-4 6-4 biggrin

Great news to which to log on. I headed for bed when it looked as though he was going to win the second set. Missed all the hoo-ha.

QF: Jack Draper WR 27 vs (15) Holger Rune (DEN) WR 16 (CH = 4 last August)

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Coup Droit wrote:
I think Jack will get a bit of the cold shoulder for a moment or two but it'll blow over quickly

Just to add, and it's not in Jack's defence, he's an adult, it's on him now, but it's maybe relevant:

I've watched plenty of juniors matches over the past 10 years, with LTA elite chosen players, playing 'normal' non-chosen players

And on rather a lot of occasions, those LTA players have not only been 'aggressive' in line-calling but have actually been encouraged to do so by their LTA coach:

I've got notes written in my files but two different instances I clearly remember are:

(1) The LTA coach said to his player: "If you're not sure, just call it out"

(2) An LTA player was calling balls out that were clearly in. They were 'in' by inches. It was flagrant. The parent of the other child came to complain to the LTA coach and he said something along the lines of:
"What's your problem? It's her line to call. A player has to be hungry for victory" - and when the parent walked off, he turned to his assistant/friend/whoever and said: "you've got to do what you've got to do to win, it's a good sign, good on her"

(NB Tennis is the only sport I can think of where junior players umpire themselves - it might be necessary for logisitcs, but it's wrong)

Heard many similar stories of dodgy line calling . Including one child telling the girl shed paired up with for doubles * were playing to win, so if it hits the line call it out* The other girls mother then passed this info on to the tournament organisers after the match.

WRT umpires and line judges, theyre not machines and frequently make mistakes. My son ended up playing his friend in the final of an LTA G1 and they were *lucky* enough to have the match refereed by trainee lines people. The calls were so outrageous both boys argued against many of the calls (but agreed with each other) and asked to have the lines people and umpire removed, but were not allowed hmm

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

From the Beeb.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, Elegant Point

It's a huge problem if you have people who don't play tennis as trainees.

I'm a national umpire (level 2) in France (level 1 is higher). And, effectively, you're told that most top linespeople judge as much by the trajectory of the ball as by the actual impact mark.

You honestly can barely tell for a lot of balls whether the impact mark is in or out. It's just too quick, and too fine lines

But you have a very good sense from the flight as soon as it's hit - and you know from experience that sense is right, from clay courts, with marks, and from the reactions and calls of other people over time.

If you don't play tennis (or haven't watched thousands of matches, maybe) it's very very hard

The kids themselves know full well - it's shocking the kids do that - but way more shocking when they're actually encouraged to do so

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
The courts here are said to be super fast and a win over a really inform FAA was really good.

Jack himself says so in the Stu Fraser report I posted yesterday.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
[...] as part of all the rule changes, I read that the US Open is introducing VAR on several courts

Maybe not a bad idea ...

Covered in the Beeb match report.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
[...] as part of all the rule changes, I read that the US Open is introducing VAR on several courts

Maybe not a bad idea ...
Covered in the Beeb match report.

And relevant here because of the train of posts about Jack's match point

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
The courts here are said to be super fast and a win over a really inform FAA was really good.
Jack himself says so in the Stu Fraser report I posted yesterday.

Ok, thanks Sc - I hadnt read that article as it wont open for me im afraid, but Id seen some twitter discussion on it.

re those archive articles, does access time out after 24 hours , wondered why it wont work ( other links like the bbc one work fine )

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Saturday 17th of August 2024 11:49:23 AM

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
The courts here are said to be super fast and a win over a really inform FAA was really good.
Jack himself says so in the Stu Fraser report I posted yesterday.
Ok, thanks Sc - I hadnt read that article as it wont open for me im afraid, but Id seen some twitter discussion on it.

re those archive articles, does access time out after 24 hours , wondered why it wont work ( other links like the bbc one work fine )

That's odd: still works OK for me. Let's try this one:

Stu Fraser's perspective on that match point. Well worth reading. Interesting paragraph:

As the debate continued, the crowd chanted, Replay. ATP rules do not yet permit the use of VAR-style technology despite trials taking place at a select number of tournaments over the past five years. The officiating supervisor could also offer no input because he believed his view from behind the court was not definitive.

And later:

It has intensified calls for video reviews to be made available across the tour. The ATP has made electronic line-calling mandatory at all regular events from next year, but has stopped short of doing the same for reviews. Thankfully, this year's US Open will have VAR-style technology available on eight of its main match courts.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
[...] as part of all the rule changes, I read that the US Open is introducing VAR on several courts

Maybe not a bad idea ...
Covered in the Beeb match report.
And relevant here because of the train of posts about Jack's match point

I wasn't questioning its relevance, merely pointing out that Russell Fuller had confirmed that VAR was being extended to cover eight courts at the USO.