Week 24 - WTA250 - Nottingham, Great Britain Grass

markymc1983 · Club Coach

Week 24 - WTA250 - Nottingham, Great Britain Grass

emmsie69 · Top national player

I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.

Blue_Belle · Club Coach

markymc1983 wrote:
Harriets behaviour has mad the news, saw a clip on BBC breakfast this morning. Not a good look for her

Also on the guardian online.

Crispy · Strong Club Player

I would agree Emmsie, I do think that there is a misogynistic element to the kind of comments directed at female players - it's far more pointed, and appears to reflect on who they are as a person. The likes of Dan, Medvedev and even Murray never get the same treatment from the media for similar behaviour.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

to be fair a) the ball was miles out, it really was b) she was quite polite I thought!

I didnt see the rest of any tantrums etc but this one, I thought she was fine and it was a very poor overrule by the umpire!

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/videos/cxeeppvvr3zo

Shhh · Challenger level

emmsie69 wrote:
I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.

You are 100% correct imo emmsie, it comes over as a bit of a "Karen" moment though. The men smashing rackets or swearing is seen as something that needs to be controlled. In the case of Murray cussing away at anyone in his box, the general thought it is just a detriment to himself and his game.

What Harriet displayed yesterday seems more spoilt, entitled, brattish even. The ball was miles out, an awful, awful call imo but had she smashed a racket and given the umpire a 10 second death stare I doubt the media would judge her as hard as they are now.

emmsie69 · Top national player

Shhh wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.
You are 100% correct imo emmsie, it comes over as a bit of a "Karen" moment though. The men smashing rackets or swearing is seen as something that needs to be controlled. In the case of Murray cussing away at anyone in his box, the general thought it is just a detriment to himself and his game.
What Harriet displayed yesterday seems more spoilt, entitled, brattish even. The ball was miles out, an awful, awful call imo but had she smashed a racket and given the umpire a 10 second death stare I doubt the media would judge her as hard as they are now.

Yet more misogyny. So a professional sportswoman who has had a diabolical line call made against her, not by a line judge but an umpire who has no business over ruling that call should just shut up and suck it up otherwise she is a 'Karen'

She was calm and reasonable. She didn't swear, throw her racket (that I could see) be intimidating, spit or be in anyway abusive in the ways that a lot of Male players but she's a 'Karen' just for having the audacity to make her point.

Nix · Futures level

Shhh wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.
You are 100% correct imo emmsie, it comes over as a bit of a "Karen" moment though. The men smashing rackets or swearing is seen as something that needs to be controlled. In the case of Murray cussing away at anyone in his box, the general thought it is just a detriment to himself and his game.
What Harriet displayed yesterday seems more spoilt, entitled, brattish even. The ball was miles out, an awful, awful call imo but had she smashed a racket and given the umpire a 10 second death stare I doubt the media would judge her as hard as they are now.

In with Emmsie here. Even the term brattish is something more used for women than men and Karen as a term is horribly misogynistic. its now used every time a woman gets angry even when justified. The umpire was wrong to overrule, it was a terrible mistake. I dont blame her for letting off steam and I dont see how her arguing with the umprie on this occasion is any worse than Ive seen men regularly argue for similar situations, including Dan and Andy and isnt worthy of special articles, otherwise there would be one every day.

Last years outburst at Katie was much worse in my view.

There is a separate argument as to whether it negatively impacts her game to get riled and I guess only her and her coach can decide that between them.

Shhh · Challenger level

Nix wrote:
Shhh wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.
You are 100% correct imo emmsie, it comes over as a bit of a "Karen" moment though. The men smashing rackets or swearing is seen as something that needs to be controlled. In the case of Murray cussing away at anyone in his box, the general thought it is just a detriment to himself and his game.
What Harriet displayed yesterday seems more spoilt, entitled, brattish even. The ball was miles out, an awful, awful call imo but had she smashed a racket and given the umpire a 10 second death stare I doubt the media would judge her as hard as they are now.
In with Emmsie here. Even the term brattish is something more used for women than men and Karen as a term is horribly misogynistic. its now used every time a woman gets angry even when justified. The umpire was wrong to overrule, it was a terrible mistake. I dont blame her for letting off steam and I dont see how her arguing with the umprie on this occasion is any worse than Ive seen men regularly argue for similar situations, including Dan and Andy and isnt worthy of special articles, otherwise there would be one every day.
Last years outburst at Katie was much worse in my view.
There is a separate argument as to whether it negatively impacts her game to get riled and I guess only her and her coach can decide that between them.

I wasn't using the term Nix, I was saying that what was the label being placed on her either through using the term, or the implications. This is not applied to the men, their bad behaviour is perceived differently. I think we're saying the same thing(?)

Nix · Futures level

Shhh wrote:
Nix wrote:
Shhh wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
I don't see an issue with how she spoke to the umpire. She's not swearing or unduly aggressive, just making her point that the ball was not just out but clearly out. I find it very strange (misogynistic) that Dan gets a pass when he does swear but Harriet doesn't.
You are 100% correct imo emmsie, it comes over as a bit of a "Karen" moment though. The men smashing rackets or swearing is seen as something that needs to be controlled. In the case of Murray cussing away at anyone in his box, the general thought it is just a detriment to himself and his game.
What Harriet displayed yesterday seems more spoilt, entitled, brattish even. The ball was miles out, an awful, awful call imo but had she smashed a racket and given the umpire a 10 second death stare I doubt the media would judge her as hard as they are now.
In with Emmsie here. Even the term brattish is something more used for women than men and Karen as a term is horribly misogynistic. its now used every time a woman gets angry even when justified. The umpire was wrong to overrule, it was a terrible mistake. I dont blame her for letting off steam and I dont see how her arguing with the umprie on this occasion is any worse than Ive seen men regularly argue for similar situations, including Dan and Andy and isnt worthy of special articles, otherwise there would be one every day.
Last years outburst at Katie was much worse in my view.
There is a separate argument as to whether it negatively impacts her game to get riled and I guess only her and her coach can decide that between them.

I wasn't using the term Nix, I was saying that what was the label being placed on her either through using the term, or the implications. This is not applied to the men, their bad behaviour is perceived differently. I think we're saying the same thing(?)

That's great Shhh. It was just the words 'it comes over as' that sounded like you were validating the viewpoint. Apologies if I misunderstood. It seems that we're generally agreeing then.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Julia Carrot wrote:
paulisi wrote:
Harriet threw that match away. Katie didn't play well.
I've not seen Harriet that stroppy before, she is the female equivalent of Dan Evans now....she was never like that in her younger days and I watched her live quite a bit
I thought she was worse than Dan. it almost made me dislike her, whereas Dan is exasperating and predictably tedious at times he remains likeable.
Were you there?

-- Edited by Julia Carrot on Monday 10th of June 2024 09:47:35 PM

No - watched on I player. Not much tennis in the NW these days....

wales1994 · County player

Agreed on all the comments. I do find Harriet's on-court attitude off putting, much like I do with Kyrgios. The latter of whom I'd regularly label as a 'brat'.

It's also absurd when a top male player like Zverev regularly GRABS umpires to relook at lines, coming from a player who has had more than one domestic abuse claim put forth against him. And in one not-so-distant moment hacked away with his racket multiple times at an umpire's chair - hitting the umpire. Yet there seems to be little to no media discussion or reprimand of a lot of his behaviour, yet Harriet having a meltdown gets seemingly more press. It's very misogynistic. Men do seem to get away with a lot more bad behaviour than the women IMO.

Crispy · Strong Club Player

If Emma makes it through to R2, Snigur looks in fantastic form. An excellent grass court player.

9vicman · Satellite level

Crispy wrote:
If Emma makes it through to R2, Snigur looks in fantastic form. An excellent grass court player.

If you remember, Snigur also upset the No. 2 seed Bia Haddad Maia last year in Nottingham as a lucky loser, before losing to Katie Boulter in a tight second round match. She's a former junior Wimbledon champion and loves the grass.

-- Edited by 9vicman on Tuesday 11th of June 2024 11:55:01 AM