British Tennis Forum

christ · Futures level

The weird & wonderful world of English grammar...

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Can't see me ever adding this particular new word to my idiolect, but it's certainly had a fascinating journey into English! The linked articles on South African & Irish "loan words" imported into British English are also worth reading, IMHO - but I would say that, wouldn't I?
There's a spare "d" in that link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kj9w2zdlgo

No idea how that came about, but thanks for pointing it out. confuse Now corrected.

Elegant Point · Futures qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:
My mother always used to call the fleur-de-lis emblem 'für elise' (Or 'fur elise', I don't think she was umlaut specific )

And she was very proud of herself, as though she was being very cultured and knowing

'Oh, yes, I do like that cushion design, with the 'fur elise' pattern'

I never had the heart to disillusion her

lol - in a similar vein, my mother (who never let us forget she had been a Latin scholar ) insisted on calling jodhpurs jod- furs

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

From today's Metro:

Just saying... Research shows changing English

Where millennials 'spill the beans', Gen Z will ask you to 'spill the tea' [ confuse ], a study of the evolution of English phrases finds.

Phrases such as 'step up to the plate', 'bad-mouthing' and 'below the belt' could also be falling out of fashion, as they rarely appear in comments on YouTube or Twitch [???], says the British Council, which studied 100 phrases.

But others such as 'bucket list', and 'Yolo' (you only live once) rank highly across generations. Study co-leader Dr Barbara McGillivray said it showed how English continued 'to reflect the changing world'.

The report in yesterday's Standard is much more comprehensive (& actually uses proper quotation marks smile ), while the full collection of phrases is available here. Having just tracked it down, I've not yet had time to digest it.

I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

christ · Futures level

I can't quite understand the use of "millennial", "generation ", "boomer" etc. - they seem to be used instead of young, old, or in the middle.

While I am here I am getting fed up with the exchange of "diffuse" for "defuse" - it is near universal now that people "diffuse the situation".

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
I can't quite understand the use of "millennial", "generation ", "boomer" etc. - they seem to be used instead of young, old, or in the middle.

While I am here I am getting fed up with the exchange of "diffuse" for "defuse" - it is near universal now that people "diffuse the situation".

I gave up trying to make sense of them when I first realised that they'd insinuated themselves into common usage! Don't use them precisely because I don't fully understand which age group they're supposed to be describing!

Re diffuse/defuse, I never diffuse a situation, but then, I know the difference. wink "Tow the line" is one of my bêtes noires, "unchartered waters" another... furious And don't get me started on "rammed" instead of "crammed", "skyrocket" instead of simply "rocket" & "ramp up" instead of "increase" or one of its synonyms... disbelief

indiana · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
From today's Metro:
Just saying... Research shows changing English
Where millennials 'spill the beans', Gen Z will ask you to 'spill the tea' [ ], a study of the evolution of English phrases finds.
Phrases such as 'step up to the plate', 'bad-mouthing' and 'below the belt' could also be falling out of fashion, as they rarely appear in comments on YouTube or Twitch [???], says the British Council, which studied 100 phrases.
But others such as 'bucket list', and 'Yolo' (you only live once) rank highly across generations. Study co-leader Dr Barbara McGillivray said it showed how English continued 'to reflect the changing world'.
The report in yesterday's Standard is much more comprehensive (& actually uses proper quotation marks ), while the full collection of phrases is available here. Having just tracked it down, I've not yet had time to digest it.

And having just started to read it, I'm pleased to note that the authors actually use all upper case letters for that particular expression. biggrin That said, I'm dismayed to see that they've nevertheless fallen into the trap of using "likely" as an adverb ad nauseam... bleh

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?

That's entirely your prerogative, Indy. To me, they're ghastly & ugly because they are of US origin & that is how I, personally, perceive them: "to bad-mouth" (someone), in particular, makes me cringe because it sounds uneducated. My reaction to them is visceral &, therefore, defies any logical explanation, so I don't expect anyone to understand my "reasoning". Give me "deprecate", "malign", "disparage", "speak ill of" or even just "criticise" any time, as they form part of my idiolect (the way I instinctively use language), but perhaps the first four strike you as too posh.

As for "step up to the plate", the expression apparently insinuated itself into wider North American usage from baseball & I resent the fact that it then made its way across the Pond & has now infiltrated British English. I also resent the fact that I subsequently had to look up its meaning to make sense of the (work-related) context in which I'd heard it.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?
That's entirely your prerogative, Indy. To me, they're ghastly & ugly because they are of US origin & that is how I, personally, perceive them: "to bad-mouth" (someone), in particular, makes me cringe because it sounds uneducated. My reaction to them is visceral &, therefore, defies any logical explanation. Give me "deprecate", "malign", "disparage", "speak ill of" or even just "criticise" any time, as they form part of my idiolect (the way I instinctively use language), but perhaps the first four strike you as too posh.
As for "step up to the plate", the expression apparently insinuated itself into wider North American usage from baseball & I resent the fact that it then made its way across the Pond & has now infiltrated British English. I also resent the fact that I subsequently had to look up its meaning to make sense of the (work-related) context in which I'd heard it.

If you dont like being bad mouthed, SC, youll detest being dissed, its more modern version. I think dissing someone derived from disrespecting someone. Sadly, I do use it, Im afraid.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?
That's entirely your prerogative, Indy. To me, they're ghastly & ugly because they are of US origin & that is how I, personally, perceive them: "to bad-mouth" (someone), in particular, makes me cringe because it sounds uneducated. My reaction to them is visceral &, therefore, defies any logical explanation. Give me "deprecate", "malign", "disparage", "speak ill of" or even just "criticise" any time, as they form part of my idiolect (the way I instinctively use language), but perhaps the first four strike you as too posh.
As for "step up to the plate", the expression apparently insinuated itself into wider North American usage from baseball & I resent the fact that it then made its way across the Pond & has now infiltrated British English. I also resent the fact that I subsequently had to look up its meaning to make sense of the (work-related) context in which I'd heard it.
If you dont like being bad mouthed, SC, youll detest being dissed, its more modern version. I think dissing someone derived from disrespecting someone. Sadly, I do use it, Im afraid.

Wrong! I detest both equally. To my ear, they sound equally uneducated.

GBJ · County player

Stircrazy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?
That's entirely your prerogative, Indy. To me, they're ghastly & ugly because they are of US origin & that is how I, personally, perceive them: "to bad-mouth" (someone), in particular, makes me cringe because it sounds uneducated. My reaction to them is visceral &, therefore, defies any logical explanation, so I don't expect anyone to understand my "reasoning". Give me "deprecate", "malign", "disparage", "speak ill of" or even just "criticise" any time, as they form part of my idiolect (the way I instinctively use language), but perhaps the first four strike you as too posh.
As for "step up to the plate", the expression apparently insinuated itself into wider North American usage from baseball & I resent the fact that it then made its way across the Pond & has now infiltrated British English. I also resent the fact that I subsequently had to look up its meaning to make sense of the (work-related) context in which I'd heard it.

I'm curious what others think of this kind of reaction towards Americanisms. I moved to California about 8 years ago with my Portuguese South African wife to live and work with young people there for a few years. I noticed within my first week that I had to deal with my prideful attitude towards any differences between Brits and Yanks. My default was to see the British was a correct and superior and the American way as wrong....even if I was being a little tongue in cheek when I made such comments. I have since come to really appreciate Americans much more after 4 years there.

GBJ · County player

GBJ wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:

[,,,]
I, for one, shall shed no tears over the demise of those ghastly, ugly Yankisms, "step up to the plate" & "bad-mouthing"!

No issue here. In fact I'd happily use either myself. What do you see as ghastly and ugly about them?
That's entirely your prerogative, Indy. To me, they're ghastly & ugly because they are of US origin & that is how I, personally, perceive them: "to bad-mouth" (someone), in particular, makes me cringe because it sounds uneducated. My reaction to them is visceral &, therefore, defies any logical explanation, so I don't expect anyone to understand my "reasoning". Give me "deprecate", "malign", "disparage", "speak ill of" or even just "criticise" any time, as they form part of my idiolect (the way I instinctively use language), but perhaps the first four strike you as too posh.
As for "step up to the plate", the expression apparently insinuated itself into wider North American usage from baseball & I resent the fact that it then made its way across the Pond & has now infiltrated British English. I also resent the fact that I subsequently had to look up its meaning to make sense of the (work-related) context in which I'd heard it.
I'm curious what others think of this kind of reaction towards Americanisms. I moved to California about 8 years ago with my Portuguese South African wife to live and work with young people there for a few years. I noticed within my first week that I had to deal with my prideful attitude towards any differences between Brits and Yanks. My default was to see the British was a correct and superior and the American way as wrong....even if I was being a little tongue in cheek when I made such comments. I have since come to really appreciate Americans much more after 4 years there.

Not necessarily judging this to be what you're doing SC as I can see there's a sense of it being about grammar etc. but I do with some Brits sometimes sense a subtle kind of prejudice that is far too accepted when it's actually just bigotry. So others find this sometimes?

indiana · Tennis legend

Hmm, :"hecause they are of US origin".

Language evolves, the Americans speak English. There is to my mind no reason at all why it shouldn't evolve with words and phrases originating in the US, nor why coming from there should make them a default inegaive issue for anyone. Though clearly many people will have certain preferences.

I genuinely find it perplexing, especially with SC apparently so involved with language. Interesting discussions at work?

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Hmm, :"hecause they are of US origin".

Language evolves, the Americans speak English. There is to my mind no reason at all why it shouldn't evolve with words and phrases originating in the US, nor why coming from there should make them a default inegaive issue for anyone. Though clearly many people will have certain preferences.

I genuinely find it perplexing, especially with SC apparently so involved with language. Interesting discussions at work?

I might be wrong, but think that SC has a dislike for all things American - or those Yanks as she might call them - what even are Yanks now, I though that phrase died away after the world war?! - and that seems to extend to or, indeed, come out in language and names.