ATP Ranking Points Changes

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

RE: ATP Ranking Points Changes

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

Yeah just remember Lloyds breakthrough with Harri. They had a bit of luck getting into Rome as Alts, Lloyd travelling hand luggage only, making the QFs then followed it up at the French, then they got a WC at Queens after LTA and Finnish tennis negotiations. Shows you need a bit of luck sometimes. The Grand Slams is where doubles teams really have to perform to get up the rankings into the top 40/30/20 etc

the addict · Tennis legend

Madadman wrote:
Yeah just remember Lloyds breakthrough with Harri. They had a bit of luck getting into Rome as Alts, Lloyd travelling hand luggage only, making the QFs then followed it up at the French, then they got a WC at Queens after LTA and Finnish tennis negotiations. Shows you need a bit of luck sometimes. The Grand Slams is where doubles teams really have to perform to get up the rankings into the top 40/30/20 etc

This applies to the women as well. Maia leapt up the rankings after her run at Wimbledon with Naiktha and the 430 points gained there are a significant portion of her 1257 total.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Joe Salisbury made the point several years back that there was one atp1000 (or really high event, can't remember which one, not a Grand Slam) where he got a wildcard, I think it was, did well - and that changed his whole career - the points and money skewed everything else, and he was now able to carry on because he had the points for other events. He'd probably have quit otherwise, he said.

indiana · Tennis legend

Though yes in general it can be tough to move up the doubles rankings and ranking points gaps generally get bigger the higher in the rankings, the groupings and gaps at any time are fairly random.

So in the current rankings, though Julian Cash WR 49 on 1740 points, is 490 points behind the WR 40 on 2230 points, the WR 30 on 2545 points is only another 315 points further ahead.

1015 of his current 1740 points are not due off before September so a good 6 or 7 months, carrying on from the end of last year, gives him a real chance to significantly move up the rankings. If good enough, and yes one or two big hauls would help, he will get there. And the same applies to the others.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 10th of January 2024 05:16:27 PM

adz1983 · Intermediate Club Player

It doesn't help that doubles players count fewer tournaments toward their rankings.

indiana · Tennis legend

adz1983 wrote:
It doesn't help that doubles players count fewer tournaments toward their rankings.

The men have the same: singles 19, doubles 19

The women have, yes, less max counters for doubles, singles 18, doubles 12 ( increased this year from the previous 16 and 11 respectively ).

wolf · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Though yes in general it can be tough to move up the doubles rankings and ranking points gaps generally get bigger the higher in the rankings, the groupings and gaps at any time are fairly random.

So in the current rankings, though Julian Cash WR 49 on 1740 points, is 490 points behind the WR 40 on 2230 points, the WR 30 on 2545 points is only another 315 points further ahead.

1015 of his current 1740 points are not due off before September so a good 6 or 7 months, carrying on from the end of last year, gives him a real chance to significantly move up the rankings. If good enough, and yes one or two big hauls would help, he will get there. And the same applies to the others.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 10th of January 2024 05:16:27 PM

But there is just so many weeks where he cannot play an event higher than a challenger. IW, Miami, Rome and Madrid all 2 weeks. Monte Carlo. Davis Cup weeks. Second weeks of Slams (if he doesnt get that far). He wont get into 500s either except for qualifying and you cannot play qualifying if you go deep in the 250 the week before. February normally a good month, after that it can be slim pickings.

As Jon you really need a big week at a Slam (semis or better). Playing 250s realistically is only going to maintain you unless you win every single one.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

wolf wrote:
indiana wrote:
Though yes in general it can be tough to move up the doubles rankings and ranking points gaps generally get bigger the higher in the rankings, the groupings and gaps at any time are fairly random.

So in the current rankings, though Julian Cash WR 49 on 1740 points, is 490 points behind the WR 40 on 2230 points, the WR 30 on 2545 points is only another 315 points further ahead.

1015 of his current 1740 points are not due off before September so a good 6 or 7 months, carrying on from the end of last year, gives him a real chance to significantly move up the rankings. If good enough, and yes one or two big hauls would help, he will get there. And the same applies to the others.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 10th of January 2024 05:16:27 PM
But there is just so many weeks where he cannot play an event higher than a challenger. IW, Miami, Rome and Madrid all 2 weeks. Monte Carlo. Davis Cup weeks. Second weeks of Slams (if he doesnt get that far). He wont get into 500s either except for qualifying and you cannot play qualifying if you go deep in the 250 the week before. February normally a good month, after that it can be slim pickings.
As Jon you really need a big week at a Slam (semis or better). Playing 250s realistically is only going to maintain you unless you win every single one.

Exactly - its the lack of opportunity for players below a certain level- outside the top 40 for doubles specialists and you seldom get into 1000 or 500 level events. I say top 40, I dont know the actual number but if a masters has a 24 draw and there are 48 doubles players, some singles or wild cards, it may even be top 30 where chances diminish if you fall below.

the slams become vital as they have deeper draws. That and , for Brits, wildcards in other grass court events.

theres lots of players who win many 250 events and just dont progress up the ranks very far.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

Coup Droit wrote:
Joe Salisbury made the point several years back that there was one atp1000 (or really high event, can't remember which one, not a Grand Slam) where he got a wildcard, I think it was, did well - and that changed his whole career - the points and money skewed everything else, and he was now able to carry on because he had the points for other events. He'd probably have quit otherwise, he said.

You sure it wasnt Wimbledon in 2018 got a WC with Frederick Nielson and jumped from 80 to 40 by reaching the semifinal.