Nice to see Beth on an entry list.

foobarbaz wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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foobarbaz wrote:

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Shhh wrote:

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foobarbaz wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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adz1983 wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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Seagull - which site do you use now for womens WTA entry
Lists? Since Darts stopped doing it, is there a decent reliable site out there ?

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 There's clearly something happening with WTA on this stuff. Since the entry lists were closed down for general use, the WTA have been putting weekly stories on their website but without including the actual list, singles, doubles nor qualies. I did wonder if they had drawn a link between this live information, where you get to see withdrawals etc in relatively real time, and gambling issues.

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 yeah, there is clearly something going on - the ATP I dont think actually like to broadcast entry lists, presumably someone feeds them to sites like Darts and Tennis Teen (or whatever it is called?)

Looking just now, Tennis Teen in fact have a post from 9th April with a Stuttgart WTA update but nothing beyond that

https://www.tennisteen.it/entry-list/wta/23963-wta-entry-list-17-23-aprile-2023.html

I am not sure how up to date it is though, it doesnt show Emma with her wildcard but maybe they dont usually carry that info on this site? 

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 There is an elephant in the room, and we can't keep ignoring it. Player safety is paramount to the tennis organisations, and that's driving the decisions and flow of information at the moment.

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 Can you elaborate on that foobarbaz???

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 Shhh, why do want me to elaborate on the perfectly obvious. Just look at what's happening in the world and put 2 and 2 together. In fact, doing that, I recommend that we suspend the GB advance entry notices until such time as things change for the better.

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   if that is what is driving it, the itf publish womens lists weekly for their events, including junior girls events a few weeks in advance. So the wta stand out in this respect. 

presumably there was a tongue planted firmly in cheek on the above recommendation! 

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 No JonH, I'm being serious about this, if we care about our players we should not be advertising where they are going to be several weeks from now. A quick look at the viewing numbers for this site, 11 members and 24 guests. If other more widely recognised player activity sites are pulling back from displaying future tournament player participation, then we should too.

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 Ok, sorry I misunderstood.

But, we don't know why the likes of Tennis Forum, Darts Rankings, etc are pulling back; it may not be a choice so much as data not being made available to them. What is not known is the reasoning. If the WTA has safeguarding in mind, as opposed to a commercially driven decision, then they should probably say and make it clear - the ITF publish womens lists still, and junior girls lists, so it obviously isnt a shared view at this stage, if at all. So, personally, not sure it means we should be doing the same just yet.

It is an interesting point being made, however, but if it is their position, and for those reasons, the WTA probably need to make their intent clear so others can make a decision on whether they follow suit, I would say. 

foobarbaz wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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foobarbaz wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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foobarbaz wrote:

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Shhh wrote:

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foobarbaz wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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adz1983 wrote:

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JonH comes home wrote:

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Seagull - which site do you use now for womens WTA entry
Lists? Since Darts stopped doing it, is there a decent reliable site out there ?

---

 There's clearly something happening with WTA on this stuff. Since the entry lists were closed down for general use, the WTA have been putting weekly stories on their website but without including the actual list, singles, doubles nor qualies. I did wonder if they had drawn a link between this live information, where you get to see withdrawals etc in relatively real time, and gambling issues.

---

 yeah, there is clearly something going on - the ATP I dont think actually like to broadcast entry lists, presumably someone feeds them to sites like Darts and Tennis Teen (or whatever it is called?)

Looking just now, Tennis Teen in fact have a post from 9th April with a Stuttgart WTA update but nothing beyond that

https://www.tennisteen.it/entry-list/wta/23963-wta-entry-list-17-23-aprile-2023.html

I am not sure how up to date it is though, it doesnt show Emma with her wildcard but maybe they dont usually carry that info on this site? 

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 There is an elephant in the room, and we can't keep ignoring it. Player safety is paramount to the tennis organisations, and that's driving the decisions and flow of information at the moment.

---

 Can you elaborate on that foobarbaz???

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 Shhh, why do want me to elaborate on the perfectly obvious. Just look at what's happening in the world and put 2 and 2 together. In fact, doing that, I recommend that we suspend the GB advance entry notices until such time as things change for the better.

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   if that is what is driving it, the itf publish womens lists weekly for their events, including junior girls events a few weeks in advance. So the wta stand out in this respect. 

presumably there was a tongue planted firmly in cheek on the above recommendation! 

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 No JonH, I'm being serious about this, if we care about our players we should not be advertising where they are going to be several weeks from now. A quick look at the viewing numbers for this site, 11 members and 24 guests. If other more widely recognised player activity sites are pulling back from displaying future tournament player participation, then we should too.

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 Ok, sorry I misunderstood.

But, we don't know why the likes of Tennis Forum, Darts Rankings, etc are pulling back; it may not be a choice so much as data not being made available to them. What is not known is the reasoning. If the WTA has safeguarding in mind, as opposed to a commercially driven decision, then they should probably say and make it clear - the ITF publish womens lists still, and junior girls lists, so it obviously isnt a shared view at this stage, if at all. So, personally, not sure it means we should be doing the same just yet.

It is an interesting point being made, however, but if it is their position, and for those reasons, the WTA probably need to make their intent clear so others can make a decision on whether they follow suit, I would say. 

 

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 It won't be discussed in public, just like I don't want to elaborate. The elephant is very real, and we should be pro-active. We can't say, "Oh it'll be alright on the night", because it won't be.

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 Im trying very hard to understand this. If the WTA thinks its unsafe to publish entry lists in advance, how come individual tournaments advertise using huge pictures of the top names they have attracted. Emmas wildcard in Stuttgart was widely reported weeks ago.  This all seems very inconsistent .

Lambda wrote:

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It's nothing to do with player safety. It's about copyright and the terms of use of the WTA sites not allowing any data to be collected or content to be reproduced without permission. Most tournaments, as (presumably) a right in their licence, still publish initial main draw entry lists on their sites. Football fixtures lists couldn't be reproduced unless you had paid for a licence to do so before the football authorities lost a case claiming copyright infringement against some bookmakers.

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 Thank you - which makes much more sense. So if the likes of Darts paid for the lists, theyd still be ok to publish. 

which raises two questions - one, the ATP lists get published, on Darts, Teen Tennis, entry list updates, other list updates, tennis on telly - does the atp have a different attitude on licensing ? And all power them if they do! And ITF also dont seem to worry about it?

second - presumably we cant be in breach of some license as we dont have any contractual relationship and all we are doing is effectively publishing hear say and conjecture (albeit reasonably well!). 

JonH comes home wrote:

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And maybe I got the wrong end of the vague stick that was being dangled , but is Foobarbaz on the same page as Lambda or is there a safety versus licensing debate to be had ?!

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 Don't play me about JonH, this is not a vaque stick dangled. I've told you my opinion, and I have made a serious recommendation based on that. It doesn't help to debate security and risk, and I'm not going to do that.