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Post Info TOPIC: Week 32 - WTA1000 - Toronto, Canada Hard


Club Coach

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RE: Week 32 - WTA1000 - Toronto, Canada Hard


nicofrance wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
nicofrance wrote:

I just dont understand why Emma doesnt hit through the ball now and instead floats balls back. Variation is fine , mixing things up but shes gone backwards and is not going to win matches playing like this against better players .


 Yes, this is the million dollar question.....and has been for the past 6 months or so...

She used to take the ball early, hit through it, a flat-ish shot....

Now she waits, uses top-spin, and tries to get kick on the ball - why????


 Its unfathomable ! Its not working and against better opponents they just rifle a winner . I have no idea whats happened with her coaching but its been downhill ever since she got rid of Richardson . 


 Did anyone really think she had a chance of winning this match? I mean look at her losses to similar opponents who just hit her off court. She's just not got many weapons right now that seem able to hurt her opponents. 

Surely an outside chance she won't be GB number 1 by the end of the year?  

Of course it could be that that great triumph at the US open last year was simply a complete fluke and that actually she just isn't that good? Far better judges than I seem to think so but there's little evidence of a top class player right now.

She's been floating balls back at her opponents for quite a while now and she's lost all intensity and spark that made her an exciting player to watch. I think any GB tennis fan has reason to be a bit concerned at this moment in time that she can find her way back to form very quickly.

She's young and still relatively inexperienced but that doesn't account for the scale in the drop off in form and playing style we've witnessed this year. There's only so long that the reasons for her poor performances can hold water.

Of course she's very badly over ranked right now but it is pretty obvious she's going to, in all likelihood, tumble right down the rankings after the US Open where, I wouldn't stake a lot of money on her getting past the first round.

I really hope she can turn things round as it can't be a lot of fun for her and it sure isn't for her fans.

I'm not even sure it is to do with any particular coach as she's basically not has one for any length of time since the US Open. 



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Intermediate Club Player

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Even as bad as she's been this year, I don't think her US Open win will prove to be a fluke. I can't think of any other woman (apart from Andreescu) who won a major as a teen and that ended up being their only win. I think she's very much a confidence player, and she obviously doesn't have much right now, but after the US Open points fall off she can hopefully build her confidence back up in lower tier tournaments.


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I think a lot of people forget Andy Murray's first full season on tour (2006). That was littered with first round losses, inconsistent tennis, and fans and pundits complaining that he was playing much too passively. He made a couple of fourth rounds at the slams (Wimbledon and US Open I think) and stunned Federer in Cincinnati but he still received a lot of criticism.

Then he put in a serious off-season, and began 2007 playing like a world-beater. I remember watching him in Doha at the start of the year, and he was so much more aggressive and physical, totally dominating lesser players. His Aussie Open 5 setter with Nadal that month was one of the matches of the year.

My point is - while Emma is already a major champion after that remarkable run last year, it's still totally understandable that she's a bit tactically confused, injury-prone, trying to figure out her best game plan, how to adapt her game to different surfaces, and finding it tough to find her best level. She's only 19, hasn't had a proper off season, and her family's penchant for switching her coaching situation around hasn't really helped.

Personally I was very impressed with her level at the Australian Open - she really dialled it up and looked like a classy player. If the blister issues hadn't struck, she could well have made the second week there. I think she overthought the clay and tried to adjust her game too much by adding the loopy topspin, rather than sticking to her natural ball-striking strengths, and she's been playing the same way on the grass and hard courts so far.

She may win a few matches in New York or she may lose first round, I don't think it really matters too much. If she has a decent off season and finds the right mentor, she'll be ready to hit the ground running in 2023. Having a lower ranking and the target off her back might help a little too. I think the main concerns will come if she ends up with a streak of losses next year and has to drop down into the lower events - all those new sponsors won't be enormously happy with that.

But she'll come good. You don't win a slam and beat players like Bencic, Sakkari and Fernandez on the biggest stage by fluke


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Tennis legend

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Very good to hear from you, Sheddie ( to newish members and/or those unaware, bow to this forum founder  )

As some folk will have gathered from some of my previous posts re Emma I agree with a number of your points and to my mind you make additional interesting and relevant ones.

As far as I can see the main reason Emma is getting such flak now in some quarters is that she went and ruddy won a Slam! Quite clearly if last September had never happened she simply wouldn't be getting the vast bulk of this. She's had an, again to my mind, understandably challenging year ( it was always likely to be very unpredictable for a year or two post that incredible US Open triumph ). And while probably some quite reasonable criticisms have been made, gee!!!

I read here of an "Abysmal performance from Radacanu", followed in the next post by "What a horror show. Embarrassing"   

I'd love that this forum was more of an oasis from Emma-dram that pervades much of the media. But hey, folk are very well entitled to their opinions and to different ones from me.

Oh, and re nico's other point about there being surely an outside chance that Emma won't be GB #1 by the end of the year? - I actually think that there is a very real chance of that, indeed very possibly immediately post the US Open even although I recently predicted vs Jaggy that she would still be ahead of Harriet post the US Open. The latest projected totals are very close but she will now have to earn more points than Harriet ( and in particular at the very least win a match ) to stay #1 then. I assume that there was an underlying suggestion that it would be awful if she fell from the #1 spot but you know, if she isn't GB #1 post the US Open and/or at year end, it really won't be a huge deal in the bigger picture.



-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 10th of August 2022 10:42:44 AM



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Grand Slam Champion

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I remember saying at the time on here I think or perhaps elsewhere that we shouldnt be judging Emma on her US Open win going forward and Im sticking with that. I also think Harriet will be ranked number 1 by year end. Emma has many years ahead of her but its unfair to think of her as a top 20 player in my opinion. All the stars aligned for her to win last year especially with a fortuitous draw. Let her develop and avoid such harsh reactions to defeats. There was always going to be more of them this year as she plays more tournaments.

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Lower Club Player

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I hope Mrs Jaggy ( bless her ) can win at least a few more matches going forward. This woman just looks the part !. Yes, if you fail to follow up a slam with another great year straight afterwards your toast it
seems to many here. The 3 posts above seem much more reasonable with there more balanced views. In this world stay ranked at around 200 and nobody bothers you. Yes, she s not above criticism obvs,
but give the kiddie a chance please. Thoughts on the match.... That missed flicked overhead for 5-3 ( eyebrows ). Camilla s serve lol.

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THere's a distinction between any real criticism of Emma, and that of her coaching.

The latter, I think, is an interesting discussion - after all, Sheddie writes:

"I think she overthought the clay and tried to adjust her game too much by adding the loopy topspin, rather than sticking to her natural ball-striking strengths, and she's been playing the same way on the grass and hard courts so far."

And the question that absolutely jumps out at you is, why did the coach allow that to happen?

It's a LONG time (clay - grass - now hard courts) - it's not rocket science - it's exactly what coaches are for

As I've said before, Emma is A1 fine - what's going on now is irrelevant to her in 3, or 5 or 10 years - yes, she's been pushed forwards by wonderful force of circumstance, and there are certain drawbacks with that too - but none of it really matters - she's so young

But the coaching question doesn't go away (and not about the family for changing so often, but about the coaches themselves)

And, yeh, Sheddie, howdie




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To put this match in some sort of perspective we must remember that Giorgi is the defending champion, and beat 6 top 50 players on the way to winning the title last year, including Kvitova, Gauf and Pliskova. SHe was ranked 71 at the start of the tournament. It was always going to be a tough match and I didn't expect Emma to win, as on her day Giorgi can beat anyone, although her results can be very up and down frrom week to week.

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I havent watched any of Emma in the past 12 months apart from some of her matches at Wimbledon, but I do follow the scores. She seems to have a regular habit of starting off well and getting to 4-2 up or 4-3 with a break, and then things seem to run away from her. Not every time but I am sure on quite a few.

I wonder if she isnt playing with the mental freedom she had a year or so ago, she starts well and free but then her brain becomes clouded, she changes her game plan at the point when the set is getting close and then fugs up, loses confidence and the whole thing unravels.

She talks about working it our herself a lot, which is fine, but she probably needs a clear thinking, experienced team with her who are able to make her relax and not worry about things.

She seemed to have that a year ago with Richardson - it was all fun and her attacking approach worked.

Like others, I think this was probably all to be expected and not to be stressed about in the long run; it will no doubt come back as she starts to play more of the events where she can learn her trade, be herself, a little off the radar. But getting a good coach who is clear, free and easy and able to make it fun is key - what happened with Andy R, no one really knows but whatever it was he brought to the table last year is probably what she needs in the next 12 months.

But I certainly dont think this is a time for panic, even though it would be lovely to see her winning (or watching the scores show her winning, as I say, I dont actually watch her matches, just read the reports and look at the scores!)



-- Edited by JonH comes home on Wednesday 10th of August 2022 04:57:15 PM

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Lower Club Player

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Good post Jon. I m the opposite I watch all her matches, since that amazing match she played against cirstea at wimbo last year. Do you just prefer mens tennis ?. Glad your following from afar anyway

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Pancho P wrote:

Good post Jon. I m the opposite I watch all her matches, since that amazing match she played against cirstea at wimbo last year. Do you just prefer mens tennis ?. Glad your following from afar anyway


 Hi Pancho

Thanks for the note - being honest, I just can't get into womens tennis at all ; I love to see our girls doing well, I really do, and follow the scores, but as a game it leaves me quite devoid of any real feeling I am afraid; so, yes, it very much is the mens game. I think it stems from playing a lot as a youngster, several times a week, everyday in holidays , and pretending I was Borg or McEnroe or Connors etc etc and mimicking their games and styles, a sort of fantasy player and the mens game just took me. I am 57 now but still focus v much on the mens - I guess I identify with it much more as a player and a fan (although I dont play these days, sadly, although I am tempted by Padel!). 

But I do keep on top of results and who is doing well in the womens and do support our girls to do well! 



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There is that saying if it ain't broke then don't fix it.

To me it almost felt like somebody decided Richardson was not good enough to coach her after her big US win.
Get shut of him, she's a big star now. Get someone better and more well known.
But imo she would have been better still having him as her coach.
The set up clearly worked and she was happy.
If after another 12 months it wasn't working then look at changing.
But I will never understand why you would change a winning formula that quick.
I won't be disappointed if Emma slips back down and has to play challenger level in order to work out her game and build back up.
I may be wrong. Just my opinion. Winning so big at a young age clearly has downfalls.

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The coaching situation is my one particular concern, especially with the changes to Emma's grip and stroke production. A number of pundits last year praised Emma's stroke production and made points such as it is so well developed it just doesn't look like breaking down.

The girl has got it and can certainly come again stronger and better but there are some things that may take a little time to unsort like that loopy stroke and surely an increasing lack of confidence.

This moving from coach to coach, supposedly to take the best out of each, to my mind so risks confusion whatever intelligence Emma may have. It also stands against so much evidence of the multiple instances where one particular coach has clearly made the big difference to a player and been right for them. It seems to undervalue the worth of one good coach and overestimate Emna's capacity to deal with the situation. And it seems to be driven by folk beyond Emma so maybe indeed she might/should in time take more control of this.



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Mrs Jaggy beats Mertens in another entertaining match. Lots of points to defend to get back in the top 50.

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indiana wrote:

The coaching situation is my one particular concern, especially with the changes to Emma's grip and stroke production. A number of pundits last year praised Emma's stroke production and made points such as it is so well developed it just doesn't look like breaking down.

The girl has got it and can certainly come again stronger and better but there are some things that may take a little time to unsort like that loopy stroke and surely an increasing lack of confidence.

This moving from coach to coach, supposedly to take the best out of each, to my mind so risks confusion whatever intelligence Emma may have. It also stands against so much evidence of the multiple instances where one particular coach has clearly made the big difference to a player and been right for them. It seems to undervalue the worth of one good coach and overestimate Emna's capacity to deal with the situation. And it seems to be driven by folk beyond Emma so maybe indeed she might/should in time take more control of this.


Couldn't agree more, Indie. Indeed, the reason why so many of us were (unfairly) high on Emma post US Open was that her technique was so solid. Somewhere along the way, she's lost that, and with it some punch on her groundstrokes. In years to come, I've no doubt she'll reflect on the past 12 months and recognize that the media scrutiny (overwhelmingly negative for 10 of the 12 months) impacted her game, however mature and measured she's been in the press. 

As others have alluded to, in years to come I believe this past year will still be seen as a step forward rather than something that will haunt her or hold her back long-term. 



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