Week 22 - ITF W100 - Surbiton, GB Grass

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

RE: Week 22 - ITF W100 - Surbiton, GB Grass

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Is that a particular UK thing that so much recreational tennis is doubles?

I've a feeling CD has said that it's very different in France though of course they probably play less "recreational" tennis and much more competitive tennis full stop - and I believe that is very much singles orientated.

Yes, basically no one plays doubles in France unless you're over 70 and/or on one leg.

So, there's about 1.2 million people with paid-up current FFT licences, all playing singles.

Tennis is a sport, not a leisure activity; you need to run, to sweat, not turn out in pretty whites, stand around and say 'well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley. So, I don't think it's snobby, indeed, it's nice that people enjoy playing doubles, for a bit of relaxation, enjoyment and fresh-air - all good. And pros may do it for financial reasons - again, quite understandable, it all depends on your options, and we've all got to make a living. But it's not the same beast.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
indiana wrote:
Is that a particular UK thing that so much recreational tennis is doubles?

I've a feeling CD has said that it's very different in France though of course they probably play less "recreational" tennis and much more competitive tennis full stop - and I believe that is very much singles orientated.
Yes, basically no one plays doubles in France unless you're over 70 and/or on one leg.
So, there's about 1.2 million people with paid-up current FFT licences, all playing singles.
Tennis is a sport, not a leisure activity; you need to run, to sweat, not turn out in pretty whites, stand around and say 'well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley. So, I don't think it's snobby, indeed, it's nice that people enjoy playing doubles, for a bit of relaxation, enjoyment and fresh-air - all good. And pros may do it for financial reasons - again, quite understandable, it all depends on your options, and we've all got to make a living. But it's not the same beast.

Thats completely different from the doubles I played. we played hard and serious so this is something I dont recognise CD, at least not in the matches I played. I find that a little insulting to be frank. Ok, I didnt play county but I played Yorkshire League , around Div 3 level. At that time, we played 3 pairs on a team and played 3 matches in a day versus the opposition pairs. All best of 3 sets, tie breaks first two sets and then a long final set if needed. Wed often play 9 sets in a day, maybe 6 hours or so of tennis. And it was hard, and we would certainly sweat. Yes, there is a social side at clubs , of course there is, but there are some very good players playing decent hard tennis on a Sunday and most likely competitively in the week as well. if that is something youve not come across, youre missing a big chunk of tennis that is competitive, hard fought, certainly got me sweating (and i was pretty fit at the time) and also very enjoyable .

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

It may not be the same beast as you say , its a different form of the sport but no less valuable and no less worthy (that word again ) - go out there and find it and play it , not the tv stuff but county league mens doubles - I hope youll change your mind.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I was explaining the different attitude to doubles in France and why it is considered inferior and not as valuable, nor as worthy.
You don't have to agree, of course, and many others won't either, but that's not the point.
It's just a different mindset. It's not wrong or right.
And, of course, some people will play doubles in France, for various reasons. And people should most certainly do what they enjoy. It's all good. But doubles in France is considered rather like playing with a foam ball, which can also be quite fun but it isn't 'real' tennis.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
I was explaining the different attitude to doubles in France and why it is considered inferior and not as valuable, nor as worthy.
You don't have to agree, of course, and many others won't either, but that's not the point.
It's just a different mindset. It's not wrong or right.
And, of course, some people will play doubles in France, for various reasons. And people should most certainly do what they enjoy. It's all good. But doubles in France is considered rather like playing with a foam ball, which can also be quite fun but it isn't 'real' tennis.

Ok- but this below felt very general and your opinion as opposed to what the French think about doubles - apologies if I misunderstood.

Tennis is a sport, not a leisure activity; you need to run, to sweat, not turn out in pretty whites, stand around and say 'well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley. So, I don't think it's snobby, indeed, it's nice that people enjoy playing doubles, for a bit of relaxation, enjoyment and fresh-air - all good. And pros may do it for financial reasons - again, quite understandable, it all depends on your options, and we've all got to make a living. But it's not the same beast.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

It's all part and parcel. It was an explanation of a way of thinking. Some of which coincides with mine.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
It's all part and parcel. It was an explanation of a way of thinking. Some of which coincides with mine.

Ok, Ive not the patience to fight any more battles I cant win. Im generally very tired and dont want to fight on unimportant things

Ill stick to my nice little polls for a little while !

tennischamp · Intermediate Club Player

Coup Droit wrote:
I was explaining the different attitude to doubles in France and why it is considered inferior and not as valuable, nor as worthy.
You don't have to agree, of course, and many others won't either, but that's not the point.
It's just a different mindset. It's not wrong or right.
And, of course, some people will play doubles in France, for various reasons. And people should most certainly do what they enjoy. It's all good. But doubles in France is considered rather like playing with a foam ball, which can also be quite fun but it isn't 'real' tennis.

I wouldnt mind being called an inferior player or saying ''well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley ' if I was Joe Salisbury/Jamie Murray with a few million £ in the bank. smile

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

tennischamp wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
I was explaining the different attitude to doubles in France and why it is considered inferior and not as valuable, nor as worthy.
You don't have to agree, of course, and many others won't either, but that's not the point.
It's just a different mindset. It's not wrong or right.
And, of course, some people will play doubles in France, for various reasons. And people should most certainly do what they enjoy. It's all good. But doubles in France is considered rather like playing with a foam ball, which can also be quite fun but it isn't 'real' tennis.
I wouldnt mind being called an inferior player or saying ''well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley ' if I was Joe Salisbury/Jamie Murray with a few million £ in the bank.

You're absolutely right biggrin

The system is set up so that doubles players can earn a lot of money. And that's fine, if that's what the authorities want. And you could never criticise a player for playing into that (although I tend to go with Jaggy when it's someone young but I still understand the player's point - why not put the odds in your favour?)

But the point was about different tennis cultures and if you look at the top French doubles players - in the top 10 there is Mahut (WR 5) and P-H Herbert (WR 8), both of whom were top 50 in singles. And the same applies to most of them.

However, back to Surbiton, it's a shame the women's had all those withdrawals, but the weather did mess things around. Wouldn't have been the same either if there hadn't been Nottingham qualis starting today and there had been no UK event (would have been less likely that Eden, Beth etc would have hot-tailing it somewhere else).

On the mega plus side though, and backing up the rather randomness of the grass court season point, it is really great to see Jodie playing freely and seemingly enjoying her tennis, and having a great run to semis (even with a bit of luck).

As she says: "I feel really confident and calm ....and just enjoying being back on the grass. I'm really happy".

After all, who can forget that awful match here (against Lapko?) where the poor girl struggled so hard but ended up losing in the third-set TB AMD injuring her ankle so badly she needed an operation after it.....

She talks about addressing the mental and physical sides too, which is really good to hear:

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/double-delight-for-burrage-on-fruitful-day-at-surbiton-trophy_sto8971580/story.shtml

indiana · Tennis legend

tennischamp wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
I was explaining the different attitude to doubles in France and why it is considered inferior and not as valuable, nor as worthy.
You don't have to agree, of course, and many others won't either, but that's not the point.
It's just a different mindset. It's not wrong or right.
And, of course, some people will play doubles in France, for various reasons. And people should most certainly do what they enjoy. It's all good. But doubles in France is considered rather like playing with a foam ball, which can also be quite fun but it isn't 'real' tennis.
I wouldnt mind being called an inferior player or saying ''well played' when someone manages a half-decent volley ' if I was Joe Salisbury/Jamie Murray with a few million £ in the bank.

Indeed. But did either set out to be a doubles player? I suggest not.

It is a great option for many players when their singles career doesn't go as they want, stagnates or at some stage becomes injury restricted,. Indeed turns out a tremendous option for some, lucrative, and they play the biggest of tournaments. In a way, it proves a calling.

But there must be extremely few doubles players who didn't set out to be singles players and that doubles has been rhe second option and I am sure many themselves would say, the lesser option.

There certainly though becomes times when it simply looks right for some players to focus on doubles and of course they should do what feels best for them. In my view the cheap shots aimed at some for making such a choice, particularly bit older players that have given singles a good shot, are ridiculous.

Great for those that really make it in doubles, and I enjoy and follow top doubles.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Neel/VdH took the doubles title. Was a shame for EWS to get them in round 1 really.

Jodie *1-2

PaulM · Tennis legend

Jodie lost 6-3 6-4. Alison was never really under threat but a great week.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, the result didn't look in much doubt but Jodie put some nice tennis out there - she should be really pleased

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Jaggy1876 wrote:
Yes Jodie has won Buzernescu heavily taped and visibly upset as she leaves the court. Jodie looks a bit down about it as well to be fair. With Brengle out its a great opportunity for Jodie but Coco got to be heavy favourite for the title now.
Well, I picked out Alison Van U earlier on this week (although I hadn't even seen Coco so it's not based on much) but I'll stick with her over Coco.
(Although I seriously hope Jodie causes a mega upset and puts her out)

Your woman let you down, Jaggy - that's life biggrin