Week 6 - ITF W25 - Birmingham, UK Hard

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Week 6 - ITF W25 - Birmingham, UK Hard

Tennpar · Strong Club Player

Agree, Emma W was at US college for 4 years, so this would have limited her chances re rankings. Worth a punt you would have thought.

Peter too · Tennis legend

When you look at the Alts list there are clearly a lot of British girls who want the chance to show what they can do but are finding it hard to get into the Q draw of a home W25. We really could do with several W15s to give them a first rung on the ladder.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Peter too wrote:
When you look at the Alts list there are clearly a lot of British girls who want the chance to show what they can do but are finding it hard to get into the Q draw of a home W25. We really could do with several W15s to give them a first rung on the ladder.

Hear, hear

sliced backhand · Lower Club Player

Coup Droit wrote:
Tennisdad_101 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Thanks Spireman. I'm perhaps a little biased as Emma is one of very few players from this part of the world, and while I wouldn't expect her to surge to the QF or anything like that, she certainly wouldn't have had odds of 1/200 vs 16/1 in Q1 like we saw yesterday. She did also have a great win in Bath R1, and come through quals in Loughborough, and always holds her own at UKPL (21-15 record last year), so a bit surprising she didn't at least get a QWC, if she still wanted to play, especially the way those were allocated.
Perhaps a little biased yes, but its ok to have favourites. I think however at 24 years old you shouldnt be relying too heavily on WC into 25k events. They should be for those whove been out injured or for those younger players who show promise or potential for the future.

I'm not sure. Our system has traditionally favoured the youngsters too much - other countries believe in providing a balanced support structure, which shows youngsters that they are not abandoned at age 22 or so, and rewards different progress. As opposed to always shifting the focus onto the next great hopes, which has not really worked (Emma R aside). If Emma W was not even given a QWC, having asked for one, then that's a disgrace. The full MD wildcard is a little more debatable as she's already had one, no?

I totally agree with CD. Promising young juniors should be playing 15's and/or maybe given a qualifying wild card in 25's like this. MDWC's should be given to players like Sonay, Emma, Eliz and Anna who have been making their way through 15's with some success. Too often expectation is piled upon 14's and 15's who are often only really playing because their parents want them to. 19-24's like the four above are competing becuse they want to do so. All too often they are ignored when wildcards are dished out like confetti to juniors.

Tennisdad_101 · Lower Club Player

sliced backhand wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Tennisdad_101 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Thanks Spireman. I'm perhaps a little biased as Emma is one of very few players from this part of the world, and while I wouldn't expect her to surge to the QF or anything like that, she certainly wouldn't have had odds of 1/200 vs 16/1 in Q1 like we saw yesterday. She did also have a great win in Bath R1, and come through quals in Loughborough, and always holds her own at UKPL (21-15 record last year), so a bit surprising she didn't at least get a QWC, if she still wanted to play, especially the way those were allocated.
Perhaps a little biased yes, but its ok to have favourites. I think however at 24 years old you shouldnt be relying too heavily on WC into 25k events. They should be for those whove been out injured or for those younger players who show promise or potential for the future.

I'm not sure. Our system has traditionally favoured the youngsters too much - other countries believe in providing a balanced support structure, which shows youngsters that they are not abandoned at age 22 or so, and rewards different progress. As opposed to always shifting the focus onto the next great hopes, which has not really worked (Emma R aside). If Emma W was not even given a QWC, having asked for one, then that's a disgrace. The full MD wildcard is a little more debatable as she's already had one, no?
I totally agree with CD. Promising young juniors should be playing 15's and/or maybe given a qualifying wild card in 25's like this. MDWC's should be given to players like Sonay, Emma, Eliz and Anna who have been making their way through 15's with some success. Too often expectation is piled upon 14's and 15's who are often only really playing because their parents want them to. 19-24's like the four above are competing becuse they want to do so. All too often they are ignored when wildcards are dished out like confetti to juniors.

I think more 15ks is definitely the way forward, you cant blame the youngsters for having a go at the 25s though if no 15s are available. But yes I agree QWC is probably the most agreeable solution.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Tennisdad_101 wrote:
sliced backhand wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Tennisdad_101 wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Thanks Spireman. I'm perhaps a little biased as Emma is one of very few players from this part of the world, and while I wouldn't expect her to surge to the QF or anything like that, she certainly wouldn't have had odds of 1/200 vs 16/1 in Q1 like we saw yesterday. She did also have a great win in Bath R1, and come through quals in Loughborough, and always holds her own at UKPL (21-15 record last year), so a bit surprising she didn't at least get a QWC, if she still wanted to play, especially the way those were allocated.
Perhaps a little biased yes, but its ok to have favourites. I think however at 24 years old you shouldnt be relying too heavily on WC into 25k events. They should be for those whove been out injured or for those younger players who show promise or potential for the future.

I'm not sure. Our system has traditionally favoured the youngsters too much - other countries believe in providing a balanced support structure, which shows youngsters that they are not abandoned at age 22 or so, and rewards different progress. As opposed to always shifting the focus onto the next great hopes, which has not really worked (Emma R aside). If Emma W was not even given a QWC, having asked for one, then that's a disgrace. The full MD wildcard is a little more debatable as she's already had one, no?
I totally agree with CD. Promising young juniors should be playing 15's and/or maybe given a qualifying wild card in 25's like this. MDWC's should be given to players like Sonay, Emma, Eliz and Anna who have been making their way through 15's with some success. Too often expectation is piled upon 14's and 15's who are often only really playing because their parents want them to. 19-24's like the four above are competing becuse they want to do so. All too often they are ignored when wildcards are dished out like confetti to juniors.
I think more 15ks is definitely the way forward, you cant blame the youngsters for having a go at the 25s though if no 15s are available. But yes I agree QWC is probably the most agreeable solution.

No one's blaming the kids. That's quite normal that they'd want to give it a go. And good luck to them. But I think people were 'blaming' the LTA for awarding the main draw wildcards to youngsters in the first place, not just a couple here and there, but systematically.

I can remember when players like Eden Richardson, Georgina Axon, Hannah Mccolgan etc etc got a lot of wildcards. And everyone got excited when they won a match maybe here and there. And why not - it's fun. But it doesn't really seem to lead anywhere. And I know there's always a drop out rate, but I feel that the junior LTA (often for personal coach status reasons) battle to get their own protégés up the list. And I don't think it's a great approach.

Peter too · Tennis legend

52 GB players got into the Birmingham acceptance list of which 17 got into the Q draw and 6 directly into the main draw. So they could have run a W15 in parallel with this event and still had players left over.

DF · Tennis legend

No-one knows exactly who will be the next big name in tennis but so far it seems to come from the younsters and not from the twenty year old 'has beens'.

They have had their chance when they were younger presumably but the door should always be open for them and they are free to travel and enjoy tournaments like our Em

(an extreme older example smile )

PaulM · Tennis legend

If the LTA is serious about considering US College a 'player pathway' as they claim to now do, that has to follow through with how players coming out that system are treated alongside those going down the 'turn pro at 17 and hope for the best pathway'.

But generally I like increased use of play-ups with doing well at British Tours, UKPLs, previous week's being used for decisions.

And always good to put our best juniors out into the situations and test their development and see where they are at. In the past a lot of our higher ranked youngsters have been kept away from these things, seemingly for fear of being exposed as actually not being that good (an inflated junior ranking from scooping up wins in weak Grade 4s in far flung places does not a future champion make).

There's a balance and I actually think the LTA have been getting slightly better at it of late, certainly compared to 5-10 years ago. The whole point is you need a strong domestic pyramid which means you need the good girls in the mid-20s in that third/fourth tier sticking around somehow for a couple of extra years.

-- Edited by PaulM on Tuesday 8th of February 2022 09:00:50 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

DF wrote:
No-one knows exactly who will be the next big name in tennis but so far it seems to come from the younsters and not from the twenty year old 'has beens'.

They have had their chance when they were younger presumably but the door should always be open for them and they are free to travel and enjoy tournaments like our Em

(an extreme older example )

Yes, the next big name will probably come from the youngsters.

But the LTA limit it to a small group of youngsters, by only having 25ks, and only having a few wcs to give, and so giving it to the same ones time over. With the net effect that we have real problems with getting any group coming through. And the youngsters are put off because they're playing the wrong level, they're no support when they're 22, there's too much pressure from having won one mega match, say etc. etc.

So, yes, they've done brilliant with Emma. But we've had years and years of Eden R, Georgie A etc etc. And so the answer, maybe, is if that you also had 10ks, you'd allow a lot more youngsters a chance (widening the pool from the small LTA elite one), as well as encouraging them by showing that older tennis players also have a place, by giving everyone the right wildcard according to their level.

DF · Tennis legend

Marni is a set down 3-6

PaulM · Tennis legend

Marni was a double break down in the second, got them both back only to double fault at *3-4 30-30. A few minutes later she was out. Shame.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Marni loses 3-6 3-6, and Eliz is currently 4-6 2-3* down (but live scores seems to have stopped).

They were deemed our best two chances of a win outside of Jodie and the guaranteed one. Eliz was made the betting favourite, and Marni around evens, so we probably will do well to get 3 in round 2, unless Eliz can turn that around. Sonay might have had a good chance against more than half of this field, but the luck of the draw wasn't with her, but a good chance to show what she can do (even if we can't see it).

paulisi · Tennis legend

In terms of wildcards, we have lots of tournaments this year in the UK and not that many players that would justify a wildcard I.e have a chance of winning a first round draw.
I suspect the plan was to spread them across the year.

Sonay has now had 2 wildcards. I wouldn't expect her to get another for a while