Week 21 - French Open (Roland-Garros) - Paris, France (clay) - women's qualifying

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Week 21 - French Open (Roland-Garros) - Paris, France (clay) - women's qualifying

emmsie69 · Top national player

Claire Liu lost to Hailey Babtiste so those good runs in tournaments lately didn't do much good and 20 seeds out before FQR

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Well done to Hailey. Only 19. (And I still don't rate Claire Liu very much).

Yes, it's a pretty mixed bunch though at the end....

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

There's been a few surprises today. Pironkova out after doing well in her slam main draws last year. Ellen Perez was the biggest underdog winner in terms of the old 10p's.

I didn't realise they were splitting the FQRs between Thursday and Friday. I assumed they would all be wrapped up tomorrow. Harriet is 3rd on Court 6 tomorrow.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Ace Ventura wrote:
There's been a few surprises today. Pironkova out after doing well in her slam main draws last year. Ellen Perez was the biggest underdog winner in terms of the old 10p's.

I didn't realise they were splitting the FQRs between Thursday and Friday. I assumed they would all be wrapped up tomorrow. Harriet is 3rd on Court 6 tomorrow.

That is strange because the draw is tomorrow evening as well...

Andy Parker · Club Coach

emmsie69 wrote:
Andy Parker wrote:
I genuinely do think that things should pick up for some of our players when the short grass court season starts. A lot depends on the luck factor of good draws, but normally things feel better after Wimbledon than during the French Open.

I also think that it is worth saying that all the Old World countries are suffering a decline in fortunes - Spain, France, Australia etc, and that so many of the newer post-industrialised countries are now catching up and making tennis much more competitive globally. Go back 40 or 50 years and you would have seen about 20 Spanish players in the top 100, numerous French, Australian, American and some Brits, Germans and Italians - now you see masses of players from the countries which were previously part of the Soviet block like Romania and Slovakia for instance, and you are also seeing lots more Chinese players and players from countries that previously had no top players and sometimes no professional players.

All that means that a shift in the world order is happening and that with lots of countries now seriously challenging at tennis to create top players, it is now much more difficult to get to the top, and probably unrealistic with a 70 million population, to expect more than a handful of players to make the top 100.

I agree though with others that tennis is still perceived as a game for the white middle classes and that some of our coaches don't help that perception.
As the (single, poor)parent of a mixed race child, I actually find comments like this a much bigger problem, all you're doing is reinforcing a perception that tennis is white middle class but when was the last time you actually went and watched a junior ratings tournament in your local area. My Son learned to play tennis at a club that whilst not one of the 'posh' clubs, is located in a village with one of the highest percentages of millionaires in the Country. Never did he experience any racism, in fact he is the one the adults loved and still ask me how he is because he was polite and, more importantly, a good player. Any elitism or snobbery in tennis in my experience has been down to ability. There is no more racism in tennis than any other part of society. But this constant banging on about it creates the perception and it's that that causes the problem. Funnily enough it doesn't seem to stop Eastern european parents from getting their kids into tennis. My son now runs tournaments and most of the participants are eastern european or black, very few white kids there and even less well off ones.

Sorry if I offended you Emmsie - it was not intentional and I was really mostly thinking about the professional game. I will also point out that as someone brought up in Britain's largest council estate, Leigh Park, that over the last 45 years that I have attended Wimbledon, I have sometimes felt like an outsider surrounded by lots of people from much wealthier backgrounds than mine, but I have been pleased to see that year by year the spectators at Wimbledon are slowly becoming more ethnically diverse and that Wimbledon is perhaps a little less elitist than it used to be.

I was in any case agreeing with HarryGem's comments previous to mine, where he mentioned the perceived elitism of tennis. My experiences have been as a journalist and spectator at professional events, so I cannot comment on the amateur and youth game properly and would not dream of tying to.

Certain things have made me feel that some professional coaches are snobbish and elitist. i won't write too much, as I am well aware of the laws of libel and therefore anything written that is defamatory and names a person needs to be backed up by solid evidence, which precludes therefore naming names unless you have this to hand and wish to risk a court case.

A couple of obvious examples of the snobbery would include Naomi B's much publicised feud with the LTA, where she received massively OTT criticism and sanctions for posing next to a condom machine and saying she was looking forward to a good night out - numerous comments were made by LTA officials and coaches about her not being the right sort of person to promote tennis, and lots of the comments by officials were really based on them perceiving her as working class and not acting in some sort of outdated prim and proper demure female role. I have also come across some very outdated and elitist comments from a top male coach who was a decent former player, and it sometimes feels that a circle of very upper middle class predominantly male players who were around in the late 1980's and early 1990's are perhaps still over-influential in tennis and that we would benefit from a younger, more diverse and more modern set of people steering the professional British tennis game. Hopefully this is gradually changing though and it is a particular pleasure to see Anne Keothavong leading our Fed Cup team.

I am glad that things are good on a local level and I wish you and your child well, and am sorry to have caused offence, but I do believe that as far as the elite professional end of the spectrum is concerned, that things are still not exactly perfect, though I do not now have any insider's knowledge whatsoever to back this up, and perhaps things are a lot better now.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:43:46 AM

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:57:19 AM

emmsie69 · Top national player

Andy Parker wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Andy Parker wrote:
I genuinely do think that things should pick up for some of our players when the short grass court season starts. A lot depends on the luck factor of good draws, but normally things feel better after Wimbledon than during the French Open.

I also think that it is worth saying that all the Old World countries are suffering a decline in fortunes - Spain, France, Australia etc, and that so many of the newer post-industrialised countries are now catching up and making tennis much more competitive globally. Go back 40 or 50 years and you would have seen about 20 Spanish players in the top 100, numerous French, Australian, American and some Brits, Germans and Italians - now you see masses of players from the countries which were previously part of the Soviet block like Romania and Slovakia for instance, and you are also seeing lots more Chinese players and players from countries that previously had no top players and sometimes no professional players.

All that means that a shift in the world order is happening and that with lots of countries now seriously challenging at tennis to create top players, it is now much more difficult to get to the top, and probably unrealistic with a 70 million population, to expect more than a handful of players to make the top 100.

I agree though with others that tennis is still perceived as a game for the white middle classes and that some of our coaches don't help that perception.
As the (single, poor)parent of a mixed race child, I actually find comments like this a much bigger problem, all you're doing is reinforcing a perception that tennis is white middle class but when was the last time you actually went and watched a junior ratings tournament in your local area. My Son learned to play tennis at a club that whilst not one of the 'posh' clubs, is located in a village with one of the highest percentages of millionaires in the Country. Never did he experience any racism, in fact he is the one the adults loved and still ask me how he is because he was polite and, more importantly, a good player. Any elitism or snobbery in tennis in my experience has been down to ability. There is no more racism in tennis than any other part of society. But this constant banging on about it creates the perception and it's that that causes the problem. Funnily enough it doesn't seem to stop Eastern european parents from getting their kids into tennis. My son now runs tournaments and most of the participants are eastern european or black, very few white kids there and even less well off ones.
Sorry if I offended you Emmsie - it was not intentional and I was really mostly thinking about the professional game. I will also point out that as someone brought up in Britain's largest council estate, Leigh Park, that over the last 45 years that I have attended Wimbledon, I have sometimes felt like an outsider surrounded by lots of people from much wealthier backgrounds than mine, but I have been pleased to see that year by year the spectators at Wimbledon are slowly becoming more ethnically diverse and that Wimbledon is perhaps a little less elitist than it used to be.
I was in any case agreeing with HarryGem's comments previous to mine, where he mentioned the perceived elitism of tennis. My experiences have been as a journalist and spectator at professional events, so I cannot comment on the amateur and youth game properly and would not dream of tying to.
Certain things have made me feel that some professional coaches are snobbish and elitist. i won't write too much, as I am well aware of the laws of libel and therefore anything written that is defamatory and names a person needs to be backed up by solid evidence, which precludes therefore naming names unless you have this to hand and wish to risk a court case.
A couple of obvious examples of the snobbery would include Naomi B's much publicised feud with the LTA, where she received massively OTT criticism and sanctions for posing next to a condom machine and saying she was looking forward to a good night out - numerous comments were made by LTA officials and coaches about her not being the right sort of person to promote tennis, and lots of the comments by officials were really based on them perceiving her as working class and not acting in some sort of outdated prim and proper demure female role. I have also come across some very outdated and elitist comments from a top male coach who was a decent former player, and it sometimes feels that a circle of very upper middle class predominantly male players who were around in the late 1980's and early 1990's are perhaps still over-influential in tennis and that we would benefit from a younger, more diverse and more modern set of people steering the professional British tennis game. Hopefully this is gradually changing though and it is a particular pleasure to see Anne Keothavong leading our Fed Cup team.
I am glad that things are good on a local level and I wish you and your child well, and am sorry to have caused offence, but I do believe that as far as the elite professional end of the spectrum is concerned, that things are still not exactly perfect, though I do not now have any insider's knowledge whatsoever to back this up, and perhaps things are a lot better now.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:43:46 AM

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 27th of May 2021 12:57:19 AM

I'm not offended but I do get frustrated because throughout my sons liife I've had to battle to get him to try stuff because of 'perceptions' and it is frustrating. I am a single parent, I was waitressing at PizzaExpress and I sent my son to private school. Black kids don't consider top universities because all they hear is 'it's not for you' pretty much always coming from someone that has no direct experience and is just parroting that they have heard from someone else who also has no direct experience. It's a self fullfilling prophecy. Tennis biggest problem is Senior members thinking Juniors are lower class and making it difficult for the kids to get court time, regardless of colour. When it comes to finding a partner, very few tennis players actually give a **** what colour someone is aslong as they are good. Councils don't take care of their courts, we have 4 park courts, only 2 of them are of a half decent standard and they share the space with the Basketball court so if 1 person is playing Basketball thats both good courts out. Most of our Male players come from normal backgrounds, not so much the Women but I think that is more to do with sport in general, very few girls play sport unless they go to Private School where it's expected. I know I'm having to pester my sister to take her youngest out of cheerleading (and there have been plenty of arguments between us about them even participating in something that is part of the Patriarchy) and dancing because I can see how athletic she is. She needs to be playing sport. Ironically my Sisiter is very sporty and competes at Triathlon but signed her daughters up for Dancing and ****.

flamingowings · All-time great

What do we think about Osaka's decision to not do any press at the FO, pay the fines and donate money to mental health charities?

emmsie69 · Top national player

flamingowings wrote:
What do we think about Osaka's decision to not do any press at the FO, pay the fines and donate money to mental health charities?

Pathetic to be honest. I certainly advocate an hours gap between match and interview but that's it. I'll give her her due in that she breaks the mold for tennis players needing to be mentally strong.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
What do we think about Osaka's decision to not do any press at the FO, pay the fines and donate money to mental health charities?

It actually made me laugh out loud biggrin

I don't really approve, as such, I feel interviews are part of the deal.

BUT, can't help it, it does make me smile when people, quite legitimately (and here for a good cause), blatantly get round the rules and rather make the authorities look a bit of an idiot.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

PS She can't 'donate' the money to mental health charities, can she? The fine goes to the FFT (or the WTA) or whoever - they'll do what they like with the money

Or is this she'll donate money as well as paying the fines?

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Thursday 27th of May 2021 08:51:19 AM

flamingowings · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
PS She can't 'donate' the money to mental health charities, can she? The fine goes to the FFT (or the WTA) or whoever - they'll do what they like with the money
Or is this she'll donate money as well as paying the fines?

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Thursday 27th of May 2021 08:51:19 AM

Yeah I think that's the plan

christ · Futures level

I've never understood why post-match interviews with sportspeople are provided, let alone required.

"how does it feel to win"? "good"

"how does it feel to lose"? "bad"

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Eric Salliot
@ericsalliot
·
2h
La WTA pourrait reverser ces 20 000 $ aux journalistes japonais qui ont engagé des frais pour venir à Paris.

From the French tennis twitter guy - good point - what about all the Japanese journalists who are here specifically to interview her, and have paid dear???

flamingowings · All-time great

I think the reasoning behind it is a good thing but she is a top earning tennis player who can afford to pay the fines - what about the players who are also going through mental health issues and cannot do the same?
Unless they get rid of the fines altogether...