YOUNGEST EVER BRITISH TOUR WINNER

londontennistube · Lower Club Player

YOUNGEST EVER BRITISH TOUR WINNER

the addict · Tennis legend

This link is already posted in the British Tour thread in this section. But thanks for filming and posting.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Thanks for taking the film footage, LTT

I've watched a few of Hannah's this week - but they're all always well done and good value - thanks

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

I don't think Katherine shares your views CD biggrin . Just watched the full 17 min vid, as opposed to just seeing how she was on MP, and moaning throughout. Was even saying can you stop filming me, ha.

But yes, it's a very good service, so thank you LTT.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Ace Ventura wrote:
I don't think Katherine shares your views CD . Just watched the full 17 min vid, as opposed to just seeing how she was on MP, and moaning throughout. Was even saying can you stop filming me, ha.
But yes, it's a very good service, so thank you LTT.

I'm sure she doesn't smile

But, yes, I watched the full 17 mins too - and I hope she's not thinking of going to the US because if I were a US college scout, I'd pass over her name like a shot. Or drop her, if I'd already put out an offer.

Spireman · Club Coach

Coup Droit wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
I don't think Katherine shares your views CD . Just watched the full 17 min vid, as opposed to just seeing how she was on MP, and moaning throughout. Was even saying can you stop filming me, ha.
But yes, it's a very good service, so thank you LTT.
I'm sure she doesn't
But, yes, I watched the full 17 mins too - and I hope she's not thinking of going to the US because if I were a US college scout, I'd pass over her name like a shot. Or drop her, if I'd already put out an offer.

I watched it too. It wears the opponent down, with Hannah there were at least some lta coaches there and the referee probably watched most or all of it. Katherine's previous two matches both won after losing first set, and I am sure similar behaviour makes it almost impossible for opponent to keep up concentration. With no referee at side of court for whole time it's very difficult for anyone to overcome. Luckily not too many are like it otherwise un umpired matches would continually descend into farce, players, parents and officials just wouldn't bother. Last years british tour return to elite competition at ntc were umpired and some interesting results for her in that when she played.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

In France, even at the lowest level of un-umpired matches, you have the right to demand an umpire part way through if it's become really bad.

Can you not do that here???

I've heard similar complaints on the grapevine and it seems unacceptable.

Spireman · Club Coach

No, you can call the referee. They will come and sort the immediate problem out, which usually means agreeing with the disputed call. So if player A calls it out, even if way in, player A will get the point as the referee hadn't been there to see it. The referee will then usually stay and watch for a while but probably go off to another match or back to their desk to receive results, sort out new matches. Pretty much all the british tour events I've been to have one referee only! So they could watch the whole of the finals, if consecutive possibly, though from video it looked like mens was on at same time. With one extra referee they could umpire both finals and also both semis with ladies and mens consecutive. I really wish they would do this. I mean woking isn't far from ntc, must be someone they could get in that wouldn't cost a fortune, just for part of two days.

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Coup Droit wrote:
In France, even at the lowest level of un-umpired matches, you have the right to demand an umpire part way through if it's become really bad.

Can you not do that here???

I've heard similar complaints on the grapevine and it seems unacceptable.

You can, but the referee normally just watches for a few point and then moves away.

My son once played a final where the tournament referee watched the entire match, I suspect due to the behaviour of his opponent (player X) in the semis (doggy line calls, aggressive cheering at opponents mistakes, challenging the other players perfectly good line calls). Player X complained that the referee was watching, especially as the referee changed ends so he was always at the end where player X was receiving. My son was 16 and player X early 20s, my son won, but I am convinced he would have been bullied out of the win had the referee not been present.

At Frinton a couple years ago, there was a girls match which one of the boys parents offered to film, the girl who was was allegedly a known cheat refused permission for the match to be filmed, even though the other girl wanted it.....

-- Edited by Elegant Point on Sunday 16th of May 2021 09:38:04 PM

emmsie69 · Top national player

Elegant Point wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
In France, even at the lowest level of un-umpired matches, you have the right to demand an umpire part way through if it's become really bad.

Can you not do that here???

I've heard similar complaints on the grapevine and it seems unacceptable.
You can, but the referee normally just watches for a few point and then moves away.
My son once played a final where the tournament referee watched the entire match, I suspect due to the behaviour of his opponent (player X) in the semis (doggy line calls, aggressive cheering at opponents mistakes, challenging the other players perfectly good line calls). Player X complained that the referee was watching, especially as the referee changed ends so he was always at the end where player X was receiving. My son was 16 and player X early 20s, my son won, but I am convinced he would have been bullied out of the win had the referee not been present.
At Frinton a couple years ago, there was a girls match which one of the boys parents offered to film, the girl who was was a known cheat refused permission for the match to be filmed, even though the other girl wanted it.....

It happens a lot, really good to hear that the referee stuck it out. We had a run in with a player that has a modicum!! of talent and his equally delightful Father. He somtimes plays ITF and I'm always happy to see him lose, the little w***** It becomes very wearing, particularly if the player just plays for fun rather than any desire to be a Pro. I've mentioned on here before that my Son walked away mid way through a road to Wimbledon at Roehampton, told the little cheating scrote he was playing he could have the win as he'd rather go play cricket.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Hmmm......

What about all the people who are qualifying to be umpires etc? Could you not get a few of them for each event? As part of their qualification?

I can't remember for mine (it was ages back, and in France) but I'm pretty sure I had to do 6 'real' matches or something, after the exam and tests, in order to get it accredited.

And then you definitely had to do some a year to keep the licence valid.

(PS It's probably good form to ask, and I guess the umpire would have said to stop if she complained, but you don't have to ask permission if you want to film people in a public place. Just look at the police sites. Sham the guy just didn't do some whatever......)

emmsie69 · Top national player

Coup Droit wrote:
Hmmm......

What about all the people who are qualifying to be umpires etc? Could you not get a few of them for each event? As part of their qualification?

I can't remember for mine (it was ages back, and in France) but I'm pretty sure I had to do 6 'real' matches or something, after the exam and tests, in order to get it accredited.

And then you definitely had to do some a year to keep the licence valid.

(PS It's probably good form to ask, and I guess the umpire would have said to stop if she complained, but you don't have to ask permission if you want to film people in a public place. Just look at the police sites. Sham the guy just didn't do some whatever......)

I'm pretty sure that in LTA tournaments you do have to have permission from both parties (even though it's not a legal requirement) Referees that run a lot of tournaments generally know who is a cheat and will try to keep an eye, sometimes just checking a couple of times in a match can be enough to keep them honest.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, but seemingly this checking a couple of times is not sufficient

(I've heard SO many complaints about kids cheating, from forumites and others, it's obviously a major problem)

And the number of kids who've given up because of it.

PS Yes, as said, I didn't think the LTA would allow the filming without permission but, as it's not illegal, sometimes it might just shake a player a little if you start doing a few clips or taking photos.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I used to play a lot of squash back in the late 70s , early 80s, junior county u14 and u16 level. It was similar in terms of tantrums and often , I think, came down to a sense of entitlement from the players and their parents.

I can recall marking a match once in a local league. By this time I was early 20s so by this time it was mid to late 80s. It was on Crewe where I worked for a year, the Crewe and Alsager League. I was marking a match, young lad on opposing team who was playing didnt like some of my calls and was ranting . Next thing, after one disputed call, hed left the court, up the stairs to the gallery and him and his Dad where both in my face , spitting vitriol. Took several minutes to calm them down and we decided as a team to award them
The match overall. Their captain realised theyd messed up and forfeited in turn and it became a stand off around who could forfeit and save face. The kid and his Dad never apologised.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Another one, I was maybe 15 and played a lad in the Leeds league , local rivals. He was same age. He went on to play pro circuit for a year or two but never made it big. But he was way better than me. My game was all flair , lots of tricky boasts, nicks, always trying to play the unexpected, didnt like playing the lines up the wall so much. I made loads of errors normally as a consequence. This one day it all went right and I beat this guy in 4 games. Hed been gradually cracking up in the match , a couple of shots that bounced twice he called up. But nothing too outrageous. But at the end , he just cried and cried and cried. Losing to the likes of me, he couldnt take. Ive never seen such a display of self pity.

I think much of it is entitlement, pressure from parents or coaches or even peers to do well and individual sports like tennis or squash put you in the eye of the storm and some players cant behave .

Mind you, I smashed a Lot of racquets in my time , swore, ranted etc, but never , ever , ever cheated on a line call or swore or argued with an opponent. That is where the line is drawn.