Week 12 - WTA1000 Miami, USA Hard

ROSAMUND · Futures level

RE: Week 12 - WTA1000 Miami, USA Hard

seagull · Hall of fame

So konta has done nothing lately because the prize money is too low? Im sure she is comfortably off so not sure that is her main motivation.

Saying that no one else has done anything is not a defence of her form either.

What in your opinion has Jo achieved lately that means she is still a top 50 player?

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

I only started following women's tennis since Jo originally entered the top 50 and have probably watched 90-95% of Jo's singles matches since then. I'm sure Rosamund has followed Jo even longer. Of course, the headlines in the GB media will be, Konta thumped by Kvitova but so was Cornet, the night before, in a very similar fashion. I know Kvitova's history and have personally seen her play at RG but I don't believe I've seen Petra play at anything like the level she did last night, since I started watching Jo.

Secondly, the consensus amongst Prime's analysts was that the night match would favour Kvitova because she wilts in the heat. Despite her well documented on court collapse in the heat, Jo has played and won plenty of matches in very hot conditions. Jo has also experienced two other similar health issues in Bath (Fed Cup) and Lexington (2020) neither connected to extreme heat. Whatever the cause, it is something Jo has to occasionally contend with and is not specifically heat related or frequent.

I would not pretend that Jo's form is anywhere near her best, which I personally put down to a lack of competitive matches. Drawing Kvitova here would not have helped. Likewise her injury in Australia (she was not alone in that respect). However, even in last night's match there were brief glimpses of the in form Jo and a positive is that Zavialoff (who coached Jo in her successful 2019) was there and can help Jo going forward. As long as Jo can manage her injuries and stay motivated I see no reason why she can't return to her 2019 level. If Kvitova can at 33, why not Jo?

As for GB v Mexico, Jo has no option but to give priority to the tour clay and grass court seasons, if she is serious about defending her 2019 points. I'm sure she will be on the clay courts next week with Zavialoff. Why would she want to play on hard, especially when managing that knee injury?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I can't see Jo doing media.

I thought her short business degree (as Harvard?) with an eye to chocolates/baking/whatever business ideas sounded far more likely.

However, I'm talking about the future and have no wish to hurry it along, I like her and want her to carry on.

Mind you, I agree with seagull and Jon that her form has been really poor.

From my numbers (and please correct if wrong):

She lost in R1 in Adelaide, in R1 at the Aussie Open, in R1 at Roland Garros, and in R2 in the three other events she's played in the last 6 months.

Adding this one to the mix, that's 3 wins (against players outside the top 50) in 7 events.

And that's as the world number 18.

It's absolutely nothing against Jo, it's not personal, we've had plenty of players who go through dips, but I don't see any other way to see the scoresheet than disappointing (at best).

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:43:54 AM

HarryGem · Club Coach

ROSAMUND wrote:
seagull wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
No point in us being delusional, jo is in woeful form and has been for some time. Im glad shes not playing Mexico , losing to lowly ranked players would just make it worse.

And I fear GB will lose that Fed Cup tie , probably best to not be associated with it!
No point in making that comment Jon. It is totally out of order.Remember Jo did beat Magda Linette a top 50 player.It is grossly insulting to our best player to make this comment.She did actually justify her seeding in Miami albeit with a bye which is something some of the plsyers didn't.do such as Brady,Gauff.You denegate Jo's Fed Cup record in recent years and Jo. herself. . Whoever plays should be able to beat Mexico. Apart from Zarazua the players don't have high rankings. Please keep your unjust comments about Jo to yourself. If I want to read unfair comments about Jo I can always turn to the tennis forum.
How is it grossly insulting to say Konta is in woeful form. She absolutely is.
Seems to me she is quite happy posing on the beach and enjoying life with her new fella, and preparing for a media career
Fine and good for her but she has done nothing of note on tennis court for ages now.

There is no evidence that Jo is heading for a media career.It is not a new fella either. She's been with her partner since Miami 2017. There is a problem for the players and that is a big drop in prize money. The winners prize money had dropped by$1,000,000 since Jo won in 2017. As for posing on the beach have you ever looked at some of the photos some of our other players post on social media. Has anybody in British womens tennis done anything of note lately ? Fran has shown promise and Katie B had a good win over Coco Gauff .Unfortunately endorsements are a better source of income at the moment than prize money.

That may be true but players will only continue to get decent endorsements if they continue to play and importantly win. No one wants to be associated with unsuccessful performers. As a brand you want success to reflect your investment.

The fall in prize money was inevitable and players will have to get used to it. I'm not sure Jo really needs the money in any case.

-- Edited by HarryGem on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:43:55 AM

HarryGem · Club Coach

Coup Droit wrote:
I can't see Jo doing media.

I thought her short business degree (as Harvard?) with an eye to chocolates/baking/whatever business ideas sounded far more likely.

However, I'm talking about the future and have no wish to hurry it along, I like her and want her to carry on.

Mind you, I agree with seagull and Jon that her form has been really poor.

From my numbers (and please correct if wrong):

She lost in R1 in Adelaide, in R1 at the Aussie Open, in R1 at Roland Garros, and in R2 in the three other events she's played in the last 6 months.

Adding this one to the mix, that's 3 wins (against players outside the top 50) in 7 events.
And that's as the world number 18.

It's absolutely nothing against Jo, it's not personal, we've had plenty of players who go through dips, but I don't see any other way to see the scoresheet than disappointing (at best).

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:43:54 AM

I agree with all of this. There's not a single serious British tennis supporter who doesn't wish Jo all the best or who doesn't hope she regains her form. There also can't be one who isn't concerned by the current trajectory of Jo's form and results coupled with her injuries.

The tennis world is all over the place right now what with the loss of most of 2020 and the rankings issue but there's no hiding from the fact that Jo's recent results have been anything other than disappointing.

Guess we will know more about where she really sits in the rankings by the middle of June. Fingers crossed.

-- Edited by HarryGem on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:52:06 AM

ROSAMUND · Futures level

seagull wrote:
So konta has done nothing lately because the prize money is too low? Im sure she is comfortably off so not sure that is her main motivation.

Saying that no one else has done anything is not a defence of her form either.

What in your opinion has Jo achieved lately that means she is still a top 50 player?

Prize money being too low and a lack of motivation because of it was a reason for losing given by Elina Svitolina after losing a match. Not suggesting that in Jo's case though. I'm not of an opinion whether Jo is still a top 50 player or otherwise. Her form has declined with ongoing problems with her knee plus other health issues in Lexington and Melbourne. Her form in the match against Linette was ok I can understand her wanting to make as much out of endorsements as she can at the moment. I would not be surprised to find that Jo retires in the next yesr or so as she has suggested.

-- Edited by ROSAMUND on Sunday 28th of March 2021 11:17:36 AM

DF · Tennis legend

I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

HarryGem wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
I can't see Jo doing media.

I thought her short business degree (as Harvard?) with an eye to chocolates/baking/whatever business ideas sounded far more likely.

However, I'm talking about the future and have no wish to hurry it along, I like her and want her to carry on.

Mind you, I agree with seagull and Jon that her form has been really poor.

From my numbers (and please correct if wrong):

She lost in R1 in Adelaide, in R1 at the Aussie Open, in R1 at Roland Garros, and in R2 in the three other events she's played in the last 6 months.

Adding this one to the mix, that's 3 wins (against players outside the top 50) in 7 events.
And that's as the world number 18.

It's absolutely nothing against Jo, it's not personal, we've had plenty of players who go through dips, but I don't see any other way to see the scoresheet than disappointing (at best).

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:43:54 AM
I agree with all of this. There's not a single serious British tennis supporter who doesn't wish Jo all the best or who doesn't hope she regains her form. There also can't be one who isn't concerned by the current trajectory of Jo's form and results coupled with her injuries.
The tennis world is all over the place right now what with the loss of most of 2020 and the rankings issue but there's no hiding from the fact that Jo's recent results have been anything other than disappointing.
Guess we will know more about where she really sits in the rankings by the middle of June. Fingers crossed.

-- Edited by HarryGem on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:52:06 AM

Yes concerned by Jo's injuries and trajectory of ranking. Less so about her regaining form if she can manage those injuries.

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

DF wrote:
I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.

I think she is serious about getting back, otherwise she wouldn't rehire Zavialoff.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

DF wrote:
I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.

Who are these other players we are critical of?

RedSquirrel · Satellite level

ROSAMUND wrote:

DF wrote:
I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.
Who are these other players we are critical of?

There isn't a British women player this forum hasnt been critical of at some time.

emmsie69 · Top national player

ROSAMUND wrote:
DF wrote:
I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.
Who are these other players we are critical of?

Are you serious, I was literally throwing my toys out of the pram last week about the state of womens tennis in the UK with the players dipping in and out of tournaments and what appeared to be an endless cycle of playing a tournament, retiring injured and the going back to training, I think the term rinse and repeat was what I used and Jo wasn't even playing then so clearly it was aimed at other players. I also think its really rude to single out Jons criticism when there are many occasions when all you post is negativity. I actually rarely read any of your posts because of the negativity. I really hope you don't think that you are the only one on here that is allowed to criticise.

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Sunday 28th of March 2021 11:48:49 AM

DF · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
DF wrote:
I think that we expect more from Jo and she is NOT stepping up no matter what ROSAMUND says in her defense. Why should we lie about her tennis playing
when are critical of others? Everyone is trying their best, I hope, under very difficult circumstances across the board. The circumstances are not worse for Jo than they are for the other players.
Who are these other players we are critical of?

On the women's side if I have to pick a name in answer then I would say that Heather has had her fair share of critical comments however I would say that the board hands out criticism and also plaudits to most players and that is why I question why you believe that Jo needs to be handled differently. Because she appears to be your own pet ? I note your frequent posts on the subject.

LordBrownof · Futures level

I don't normally get in the middle of these back and forth but...with respect, did anyone actually watch the match? I did (helpful to live on the east coast). Kvitova was outstanding. Her first set was Wimbledon final vs Bouchard-type-quality. She would've beaten anyone last night.

The point being, let's not get too fatalistic about Jo's career based on the result last night. Yes, very fair in context to say Jo isn't 2017 or even 2019 Jo right now. She doesn't give much away re the state of injuries either but clearly, she's managing her knee. The second serve has gone, I'm curious whether the knee has been a factor here.

She needs matches and confidence. That's what helped her in 2019 during the clay-court run. A few scrappy wins turned into arguably her most successful period. I don't think there's any evidence that Jo isn't fully committed to this - we have data points - she has been written off before and come back, she's also someone we know to respect the process. Process people are serious people. Let's not equate results with commitment so quickly.

Given that Zavialoff wasn't with her in Aus, hopefully we'll start to see the results of some extended time together soon.