Wimbledon 2021 WCs - women

HarryGem · Club Coach

Wimbledon 2021 WCs - women

dodrade · Futures qualifying

HarryGem wrote:
MDWC I'd only give to Harriet Katie B and possibly Fran. Simply don't believe any of the others have shown enough consistent quality or indeed even appearances to warrant one.

QWC Probably to Jodie, Katie S and Emma R. Not sure any others are deserving frankly. Possibly Matilda but she's an outside bet. Sam should get in without one.

Really have no idea who will actually get one. I'm afraid I'm of the school that wildcards should be deserved and not just handed out because you happen to be a GB player but not really good enough.

Surely Wildcards by definition are unearned places? Otherwise you would simply make everyone go through qualification instead.

Katie S appears to be in the UK after all so might still be in contention for one.

RedSquirrel · Satellite level

Wildcards can be earned. For example some Wimbledon WCs are earned by winning the 100K events and either a WC or QWC to the junior champion. A couple of players earn a qWC through the play offs, although whether that should be a route to a qWC is a separate question. Other slams award WCs to players who have earned it by performing best over the series of pre slam tournaments, which I think many of us would like to see for Wimbledon. There is some merit to the idea of some places being available to players who have come into form in the weeks prior to a slam or who perform better on the surface of the slam which a 52 week ranking may not reflect. Indeed, form immediately prior to a Slam won't be reflected in the rankings determining entry with that being 6 weeks prior to the Slam.

I'm in the camp that isn't opposed to WCs for slams but do think there are too many, especially in qualifying, and I am opposed to them being a largely closed shop to the home nation and reciprocal awards with the other slam nations. All players internationally should have an equal opportunity to receive a WC, preferably by it being earned by meeting some preset published criteria.

HarryGem · Club Coach

dodrade wrote:
HarryGem wrote:
MDWC I'd only give to Harriet Katie B and possibly Fran. Simply don't believe any of the others have shown enough consistent quality or indeed even appearances to warrant one.

QWC Probably to Jodie, Katie S and Emma R. Not sure any others are deserving frankly. Possibly Matilda but she's an outside bet. Sam should get in without one.

Really have no idea who will actually get one. I'm afraid I'm of the school that wildcards should be deserved and not just handed out because you happen to be a GB player but not really good enough.
Surely Wildcards by definition are unearned places? Otherwise you would simply make everyone go through qualification instead.
Katie S appears to be in the UK after all so might still be in contention for one.

Well, I was replying to the question of who you think might get one. But, yes, as a general rule I'm not in favour of handing out MDWCs to players who frankly aren't good enough to qualify just because they are GB players. However, there are also times where there are legitimate reasons for awarding one. So for eg where a player has been out injured or with illness and whose ranking has suffered because of it and whose protected ranking may no longer in place. I would say Katie B, for eg, would fall into that category. She suffered a serious injury, actually playing for her country, which seriously derailed her career at a time when her ranking was inside the top 100 and on an upwards trajectory.

I would just add that I'm talking only about Wimbledon here. This is clearly one of the top 4 tournaments in the tennis year and you should generally have to qualify to play in it by merit and not by a free ticket. I know I'm out on a limb here and for lesser tournaments I don't mind a limited number of wildcards.

QWCs are more acceptable for then you do at least have to win 3 matches against players just short of the required entry ranking to get into the main draw.

Of course this year is more complicated due to the pandemic and the fact that many players are probably over and under ranked due to the fact that points are being kept on players records which they possibly don't deserve making it harder for players who are actually playing well right now to get higher up the rankings.

RedSquirrel · Satellite level

As for the discussion on WCs I haven't much to add to what has been said. I do think Emma will get a MDWC on development/experience criteria. It is difficult to know what the committee will be thinking with regard to Jodie and Katie S, but my choice would be qualifying. I think, if Emma does get the md, than with 4 MDWCs that will be enough for the committee. Internationally, the junior champion usually gets bumped up, so Signur should get the MDWC. One will go the 100K winners if needed. Venus won't need one as she is next in on the updated entry lists yesterday. Konjuh has been mentioned as a possibility, but I don't know. It will be difficult in Berlin qualifying to make much impression on the committee.

In qualifying addition to Jodie, KS, Naiktha and the 18U winner as others have said I would expect Matilda to get one. Beyond that I would only consider Tara and Eden. Has Tara done enough this week? There may be another junior as well.

What we do know is that the committee like to throw in a surprise or two in their WC selections, so what we can expect is the unexpected.

RedSquirrel · Satellite level

With Harriet now not needing a WC to Birmingham, are we thinking KB and Harriet will be the WCs or will Katie want to stay in Nottingham where there is a better chance of making more progress and building her ranking?

PaulM · Tennis legend

I'm anticipating Katie and Jodie to go to Birmingham, and Katie S and Emma to go to Notts. Fran sounded in her post match press like she wouldn't play next week but she could do Notts main draw then rest week of Eastbourne ahead of Wimbledon?

Would suspect Eden, Tara, EWS, Sam, Naiktha and Beth would all stay in Notts so they are assured of doubles play rather than take Birmingham QWC.

On Wimbledon, I tend to be more generous than most on this board but that's primarily driven by selfishness, and also because I find the unique pearl clutching over wildcards in the UK a bit boring when we see how the other Slam nations use them liberally. There were big issues in the 00s with them but that was often down to poor selection and not actually taking some of the 'riskier' choices the other 3 will often do with their juniors. The main draw wild card playoff was a good invention but didn't last. And the difficulty is the grass court season isn't long enough to do an equivalent of what a couple of the other slams do where the domestic player who gets most points over a series of specified events gets one.

So for me. I'd say main draw: Harriet, Fran, Jodie, Katie and Emma. I suspect the other 3 would all give their Matilda one too but we've never rewarded our top ITF U18 in that way really.

Qualies: Katie S, Naiktha (I guess, if pre-qualies existed still she should be in that), Tara plus the U18 winner who shouldn't count in the 8 as that was a separate agreement with AELTC.

I'd also be inclined to hold a two round playoff amongst those 4 with the winner being bumped up (there's an argument for putting in Sam over the U18 winner I suppose as a qualies direct acceptance).

The question is then what you do with the final 4 qualy wildcards. Do you go purely by ranking of those around (which assuming Maia and Amanda aren't would include the likes of Eden and EWS), or you do you take any other of our better juniors (even if they can't qualify for a 15k). I don't see any overseas players that would need one?

PaulM · Tennis legend

Top four current main draw alternates are:

Venus
Sasnovich
Puig
Bolsova

Suspect a couple will get in anyway, but these would be players to benefit from a couple of unallocated wildcards.

Given we know AELTC uniquely don't like using all doubles wildcards, the top pairs on the entry list are:

McHale/Tomljanovic

Juvan/Li

Garcia-Perez/Wachaczyk

Davis/Raina

-- Edited by PaulM on Thursday 10th of June 2021 07:59:57 AM

flamingowings · All-time great

PaulM wrote:
Top four current main draw alternates are:

Venus
Sasnovich
Puig
Bolsova

Suspect a couple will get in anyway, but these would be players to benefit from a couple of unallocated wildcards.

Given we know AELTC uniquely don't like using all doubles wildcards, the top pairs on the entry list are:
McHale/Tomljanovic
Juvan/Li
Garcia-Perez/Wachaczyk
Davis/Raina

-- Edited by PaulM on Thursday 10th of June 2021 07:59:57 AM

Puig has just had shoulder surgery, out for the rest of the year pretty much.

the addict · Tennis legend

Katie Swan has posted on instagram, practising at Wimbledon today. So she is in the mix for wild cards.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

That's good to know. Thanks.

Spireman · Club Coach

One group of players that haven't been mentioned for possible qwc are those at american uni and a few others who are 2002 born so too old for u18 nationals, and chance to win that one. The Wimbledon wc playoffs may have included some of those players normally so they would have at least had a chance this year. Covid and lta qwc playoff decision seems to have put paid to hopes for quite a few this year.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Spireman wrote:
One group of players that haven't been mentioned for possible qwc are those at american uni and a few others who are 2002 born so too old for u18 nationals, and chance to win that one. The Wimbledon wc playoffs may have included some of those players normally so they would have at least had a chance this year. Covid and lta qwc playoff decision seems to have put paid to hopes for quite a few this year.

Who else in 2002 (apart from Emma Rad) were you thinking of?

And none of our female players at college seem to have been hitting it out of the park. Unless there's someone I'm missing?

Victoria Allen has been playing very well at the UTRs but it's hardly Wimbly quali level.

I agree, though - without the play-offs, it's a real shame for the outsiders (whether Emily WS at one end, or Alice Gillan, as a player with no hope otherwise of getting one, or someone like Eden who would have stood a good chance in the Wimbly qualis (if she's not getting a quali wildcard normally).

But I can't think of many (any?) 2002-ers or college players that are that short-changed.

the addict · Tennis legend

Not sure how many of our college players have made it back here. I'm sure most haven't yet - some haven't been home for over a year.

Spireman · Club Coach

Coup Droit wrote:
Spireman wrote:
One group of players that haven't been mentioned for possible qwc are those at american uni and a few others who are 2002 born so too old for u18 nationals, and chance to win that one. The Wimbledon wc playoffs may have included some of those players normally so they would have at least had a chance this year. Covid and lta qwc playoff decision seems to have put paid to hopes for quite a few this year.
Who else in 2002 (apart from Emma Rad) were you thinking of?
And none of our female players at college seem to have been hitting it out of the park. Unless there's someone I'm missing?
Victoria Allen has been playing very well at the UTRs but it's hardly Wimbly quali level.
I agree, though - without the play-offs, it's a real shame for the outsiders (whether Emily WS at one end, or Alice Gillan, as a player with no hope otherwise of getting one, or someone like Eden who would have stood a good chance in the Wimbly qualis (if she's not getting a quali wildcard normally).
But I can't think of many (any?) 2002-ers or college players that are that short-changed.

Yes, good point, maybe not anyone in particular, I just like the idea that there is a route to wimbledon for someone a bit unexpected who happens to play well and maybe rise to the opportunity. I know these are not all 2002 players but pre covid with at least some tournaments in uk we had likes of sasha hill, eden Richardson, holly staff, grace piper, amelia rajecki and others getting qwc into 15 or 25k in uk or Ireland, and I guess it is may be more covid and the lack of opportunities that is a problem. Those doing well in uk pro series last year and this such as eliz maloney and others would no doubt have been aiming for the qwc play offs as well. I'm not saying any of those in particular are the standard to win a Wimbledon qualie match but just it would have been nice to see those sort of players have a go. After all the u18 nationals will provide one player with a chance which I think is a good thing, now either eva or kylie after semis today.