Week 8 - WTA 500 ($535K) - Adelaide, Australia Hard

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Week 8 - WTA 500 ($535K) - Adelaide, Australia Hard

HarryGem · Club Coach

PaulM wrote:
She just doesn't have any spark anymore. Been a while since we saw the magic JoKo we perhaps took for granted!

I agree. I know this has been debated adnauseam but I am starting to think her time at the top of the game is possibly over. Obviously the rankings are all over the place right now and she is clearly rusty from lack of playing but with the odd exceptions over the last couple of years her level is nearer 40-50 in the world than top 20. She's 30 this year and possibly wants children. I can see this year and maybe next as the last on tour for her, Even next year might depend upon how this year goes.

Her serve seems to have lost something and no longer provides free points in the way it did. Her overall game just seems robotic and frankly joyless in a way. Hope she can prove me wrong but the women's game seems to have progressed and several new players can out hit her and have better movement and more options as well as years on their side.

Rogers, today, was simply playing at a much higher level and Jo had no answer.

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

Pretty demoralising 6 weeks for Jo with not much going her way, so perhaps a little early to write her off just yet. In particular, the ab injury prevented Jo from benefitting from a reasonably kind draw in the AO (for two rounds at least) that might of cleared away some of the rustiness.

The result today was as expected, given Rogers' form and Jo's lack of match play. There were though, encouraging flashes of Jo magic, such 4 aces and some well struck winners. Jo had opportunities too but Rogers' defence of BPs was just too good on this occasion.

Looking ahead, I'm not sure if Jo has had much input yet from reuniting with Dimitri Zavialoff, the coach who gave her such good results in 2019 and looking back to last year, Jo was very close to taking the W&S title, which would have put an entirely different complection on her career.

Andy Parker · Strong Club Player

I agree with TTMan - too early to write Jo Ko off, not that I actually think anyone actually intended to do that.

She was obviously carrying a proper injury at the Aussie Open, as she withdrew from a match that she was quite possibly going to win, and if she is still carrying some minor injury problems, it may be a while before she plays at the top of her game again. The age of 30 used to be seen as close to the end of a player's career, but these days so many of the players carry on a lot longer than that - fitness coaches, sports scientist, dieticians and lots of other experts now all play their part, and even if she sometimes gets injuries, I think Jo Ko could be around for a lot longer yet.

All that said, I always thought that Jo Ko's career high ranking of 4 flattered her and I feel she is more a dangerous player whose natural ranking has been 11-20 for a while; the sort of player who can go on a run and occasionally win tournaments, but one that is a little lower in general ability and consistency than say Osaka, Halep, Barty, Serena Williams, Murguruza and a few others.

Anyway I hope and believe that this is a temporary blip and that she still remains a player who will be in the top 20 for at least another couple of years.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

It's a sign maybe that the careers of Jo and Andy are going to come to an end at the same time. I know Jo came back after Miami to surprise her critics but more recently she's had the knee problem , palpations and ab issue. To be honest I was surprised that she played so quickly after retiring in the AO. Jo has been a beneficiary of the 2 year ranking system ( not the only one) and the fall will come after the 2019 clay court results come off. She's done pretty well in the past 2 years with her sponsorship deals. After 2017 she's never had much success in Australia. Not very optimistic about the playing future to be frank.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

If you look at Jo's career since the 2019 US Open it's never been the same since she revealed her knee problem in December 2019. In a recent interview she said it was still being managed.

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

An issue now for many established players returning from absence, injury or with managed injuries is the depth of talent. Victory over players outside of the top 30/50 is no longer a given for returning top players.

In Jo's case, her artificially high ranking might once of eased her return but now the bye's actually make it harder. Jo is caught in a trap, in which the only quick way out is to be injury free and get some easy draws. IF, Jo can get out of that trap (a drop in ranking might actually help) I believe she has a fighting chance of regaining her 2019 form, the talent is still there but I agree with Rosamund, the odds and time left to Jo are not on her side. Having said that, Like Dan Evans, Jo is the sort of person to give it her best shot, as long as that is what she still wants. I doubt if Jo will be short of options when her playing career ends.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

TTMan wrote:
An issue now for many established players returning from absence, injury or with managed injuries is the depth of talent. Victory over players outside of the top 30/50 is no longer a given for returning top players.

In Jo's case, her artificially high ranking might once of eased her return but now the bye's actually make it harder. Jo is caught in a trap, in which the only quick way out is to be injury free and get some easy draws. IF, Jo can get out of that trap (a drop in ranking might actually help) I believe she has a fighting chance of regaining her 2019 form, the talent is still there but I agree with Rosamund, the odds and time left to Jo are not on her side. Having said that, Like Dan Evans, Jo is the sort of person to give it her best shot, as long as that is what she still wants. I doubt if Jo will be short of options when her playing career ends.

When you say about established players returning from injury it has to be said that Jo met an opponent in Shelby Rogers who looked in pretty good form. Sometimes writing players off does more for the player than suggesting they are going to win a Grand Slam. Jo was written off by the media after the heavy defeat by Qiang Wang in Miami 2019. Yet she then followed up by a successful clay court season including reaching the Italian Open final unseeded..

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

Andy Parker wrote:
I agree with TTMan - too early to write Jo Ko off, not that I actually think anyone actually intended to do that.

She was obviously carrying a proper injury at the Aussie Open, as she withdrew from a match that she was quite possibly going to win, and if she is still carrying some minor injury problems, it may be a while before she plays at the top of her game again. The age of 30 used to be seen as close to the end of a player's career, but these days so many of the players carry on a lot longer than that - fitness coaches, sports scientist, dieticians and lots of other experts now all play their part, and even if she sometimes gets injuries, I think Jo Ko could be around for a lot longer yet.

All that said, I always thought that Jo Ko's career high ranking of 4 flattered her and I feel she is more a dangerous player whose natural ranking has been 11-20 for a while; the sort of player who can go on a run and occasionally win tournaments, but one that is a little lower in general ability and consistency than say Osaka, Halep, Barty, Serena Williams, Murguruza and a few others.

Anyway I hope and believe that this is a temporary blip and that she still remains a player who will be in the top 20 for at least another couple of years.

Thanks for your support but disagree slightly with your penultimate paragraph. From Oct 2016 to Feb 2018, Jo was a solid top tenner having previously risen rapidly from c.150 in mid 2015. At the start of 2017, Jo was vying with Pliskova for the number one slot in the race and I think (please check) might have been the first player to achieve a higher win rate than Serena since WTA stats began. Just prior to achieving her career high of 4 (Jul 2017) Jo became the first British women to defeat a reigning number one on home soil (Kerber) having already defeated the reigning French Open champion (Ostapenko) on the same day (Eastbourne, Jun 2017). During 2018 Jo fell out of love with tennis and dropped to 50 but from Jul 2019 until now has been predominately top 15, albeit with the benefit of the covid ranking system. Since 2015, WTA registers her top rank by year as 9,4,9,11,12,14.

So sorry, NO, Jo thoroughly deserves her CH of 4. Take injury and covid of the equation and I personally believe top 15 has been her "natural" underlying ranking since Jul 2019 but during that period a lot of new players have broken through.

Interestingly, Jo has beaten all those in your list of top players along with an impressive list of other top ten and ex top ten player wins.

TTMan · Intermediate Club Player

ROSAMUND wrote:
TTMan wrote:
An issue now for many established players returning from absence, injury or with managed injuries is the depth of talent. Victory over players outside of the top 30/50 is no longer a given for returning top players.

In Jo's case, her artificially high ranking might once of eased her return but now the bye's actually make it harder. Jo is caught in a trap, in which the only quick way out is to be injury free and get some easy draws. IF, Jo can get out of that trap (a drop in ranking might actually help) I believe she has a fighting chance of regaining her 2019 form, the talent is still there but I agree with Rosamund, the odds and time left to Jo are not on her side. Having said that, Like Dan Evans, Jo is the sort of person to give it her best shot, as long as that is what she still wants. I doubt if Jo will be short of options when her playing career ends.

When you say about established players returning from injury it has to be said that Jo met an opponent in Shelby Rogers who looked in pretty good form. Sometimes writing players off does more for the player than suggesting they are going to win a Grand Slam. Jo was written off by the media after the heavy defeat by Qiang Wang in Miami 2019. Yet she then followed up by a successful clay court season including reaching the Italian Open final unseeded..

I remember, Jo looked pretty shell shocked after being bageled in that match in Miami but quite the reverse after her Fed Cup comeback against Putinseva at the Copper Box a month later. Lets hope Shelby gave Jo some encouragement into what's achievable.

Yes, media reporting should be appropriate and balanced. Supportive but without overhype. Psychology, even if it works, should be left to the coaches.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

I commented that Jo had no success in AustralIa since 2017. Then I realised in 2018, 2019 and 2021 she sustained an injury during her AustralIa tour and in 2020 she arrived with her knee injury. Having retired in her match in the AO and the following week withdrawn a few hours before she was due to play is it reasonable to expect her to be in top form just a week later?

LordBrownof · Futures level

I think we should also remember that whilst Jo wasn't in the "hard" quarantine, she is a player who likes routine and repetition and even the soft quarantine was going to have an impact on her arguably more than others. Second, she was without her coach. Two factors in addition to the injury, that I think are worth considering.

I'm firmly in the camp of not writing her off just yet.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

I would actually rather have a player reach a Grand Slam singles final than have a high singles ranking. e.g.Svitolina has been in the top 5 but thus far not reached a GS final whereas Sabine Lisicki never ranked higher than 15 but has a Wimbledon singles final to her name .( and doubles final ) Jo never ranked No. 4 for very long in 2017.. It was the time when this included a last 16 US Open, a QF at the AO and a Wimbledon SF. Performances in GS count as Laura also illustrated when she ranked 27. That included last 16 in US and Wimbledon and 3rd round in AO. Re the comment about Jo falling out of love for tennis in 2018 she best described her feelings at her address to the Oxford Union.The term used is burn -out.

-- Edited by ROSAMUND on Wednesday 24th of February 2021 07:01:24 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Worth also remembering it was that long ago (6 months) when she had a great week in the USA, so she can do it. She just needs to get into that space again; with Jo it seems her career will always be a combo of boom and bust, so I reckon there will be more booms to come

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Iga Swiatek reached the final with an easy win over Jil Teichmann. Belinda Bencic beat Coco Gauff in 3 sets to reach the final.

-- Edited by ROSAMUND on Friday 26th of February 2021 11:14:05 AM