Week 6 - Australian Open, Melbourne, Australia Hard

Andy Parker · Club Coach

Week 6 - Australian Open, Melbourne, Australia Hard

junior · Intermediate Club Player

Well done Jaggy for taking this to a racial place. With all of your "detecting" I find it ironic you being the one to bring up race just to be able to try and call other people out for it, good job. In my opinion all of us humans are equally worthless, no matter colour creed whatever, and the sooner the next catastrophic event comes and wipes us all out (if it's not covid) the better. P.s I still think she's a cheater, it sounds to me that is in fact you relating cheating and the colour of her skin then you're being intolerant. I sincerely hope I'm wrong

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I really dont follow womens tennis too much or the personalities; I have never really taken to Serena as a person, but do know she likes and gets on with Andy Murray and that isnt a bad thing, she clearly has a sense of humour ( I read it in his book and also one by Vince Spadea, I think). I do like Venus however, she is very dignified and measured.

What i do think is terrible is how black tennis (mens or womens) hasn't progressed in terms of top level participation in the past 30 or 40 years. If you look back to the 70's, 80's, we had a number of women from Leslie Allen through Zina Garrison and men from players like Mal Washington through to Blake, and it has never really progressed into the numbers that the game needs and deserves. Not just USA, but in Europe, we can look at Monfils and Tsonga but that isnt much progress on years back, when we had the Amritraj brothers ,through Arthur Ashe and Yannick Noah - just no progress and that is sad and disappointing and reflects a definite bias in the sport and maybe society that doesnt attract black athletes to play.

Probably not what this discussion was about but felt I should comment!

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

junior wrote:
Well done Jaggy for taking this to a racial place. With all of your "detecting" I find it ironic you being the one to bring up race just to be able to try and call other people out for it, good job. In my opinion all of us humans are equally worthless, no matter colour creed whatever, and the sooner the next catastrophic event comes and wipes us all out (if it's not covid) the better. P.s I still think she's a cheater, it sounds to me that is in fact you relating cheating and the colour of her skin then you're being intolerant. I sincerely hope I'm wrong

Your response tells me all I need to know. The aggressive tone and referring to her as a cheater. She is certainly not. You have it in for her so the conclusion I have arrived at is entirely justified I think. Making silly allegations like that is only going to get you called out. Serena has been a great ambassador for the Sport as has Venus, Im sure all her peers will agree with me on that.

To shift the tone the womens game is in a very strong place. Theres some great champions out there just now, just because Serena makes the semis I dont think that makes that any less so.

Andy Parker · Club Coach

JonH comes home wrote:
I really dont follow womens tennis too much or the personalities; I have never really taken to Serena as a person, but do know she likes and gets on with Andy Murray and that isnt a bad thing, she clearly has a sense of humour ( I read it in his book and also one by Vince Spadea, I think). I do like Venus however, she is very dignified and measured.

What i do think is terrible is how black tennis (mens or womens) hasn't progressed in terms of top level participation in the past 30 or 40 years. If you look back to the 70's, 80's, we had a number of women from Leslie Allen through Zina Garrison and men from players like Mal Washington through to Blake, and it has never really progressed into the numbers that the game needs and deserves. Not just USA, but in Europe, we can look at Monfils and Tsonga but that isnt much progress on years back, when we had the Amritraj brothers ,through Arthur Ashe and Yannick Noah - just no progress and that is sad and disappointing and reflects a definite bias in the sport and maybe society that doesnt attract black athletes to play.

Probably not what this discussion was about but felt I should comment!

When people post with huge amounts of bile and vitriol against any black athlete, it is quite reasonable to then ask the reasons why the poster clearly loathes the person that they are denigrating. If the poster protests their innocence, I'm fine with that, but anyone who does post such negative OTT comments is quite reasonably going to be asked why they have such a problem with the player and whether it is based on the player's skin colour.

I agree with you entirely that it is sad that there are still so few black players competing in tennis. It is still a very white middle class sport, with players, officials and spectators overwhelmingly white and middle class. It is sad that despite awesome black players right back to the likes of Yvonne Goolagong in the 1960's that this hasn't changed, but maybe a lot is to do with how tennis is perceived by the majority of people, and also the costs of taking up the sport, paying to be allowed to join clubs and get on courts to play does not really make it easy for the majority of black urban youngsters, and the sheer demographics and costs of tennis clubs help to keep tennis sadly white and middle class.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 04:53:02 PM

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 05:28:36 PM

junior · Intermediate Club Player

I don't know whether its political correctness gone mad? Different times or what? Are people in the UK that scared of calling a spade a spade nowadays? And so desperate to link everything back to race just to try and make themselves look more tolerant? I dislike Serena because (much like why I dislike Judy Murray) she just seems horrible, will say and do whatever (cheating, threatening etc) and there are plenty, plenty of examples of it. It's the 21st century in Britain not the 1700's in America people get a grip. In my book, its worse to be thirsty and desperate to try and create racial problems where they dont exist in order to boost ones own ego and apparent profile, than someone merely commenting on one persons many times lack of ethical consideration, shame on you people and the world

Crispy · Strong Club Player

political correctness gone mad

red flag alert. im Ready for your freedom of speech response

-- Edited by Crispy on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 05:08:08 PM

junior · Intermediate Club Player

Not sure how much a freedom of speech speech, just a simple one about people being able to offer their (tolerant and inoffensive) opinion without a social justice warrior jumping in to manipulate topics to be able to stroke their own ego. Either way I have faith in Osaka

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Andy Parker wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
I really dont follow womens tennis too much or the personalities; I have never really taken to Serena as a person, but do know she likes and gets on with Andy Murray and that isnt a bad thing, she clearly has a sense of humour ( I read it in his book and also one by Vince Spadea, I think). I do like Venus however, she is very dignified and measured.

What i do think is terrible is how black tennis (mens or womens) hasn't progressed in terms of top level participation in the past 30 or 40 years. If you look back to the 70's, 80's, we had a number of women from Leslie Allen through Zina Garrison and men from players like Mal Washington through to Blake, and it has never really progressed into the numbers that the game needs and deserves. Not just USA, but in Europe, we can look at Monfils and Tsonga but that isnt much progress on years back, when we had the Amritraj brothers ,through Arthur Ashe and Yannick Noah - just no progress and that is sad and disappointing and reflects a definite bias in the sport and maybe society that doesnt attract black athletes to play.

Probably not what this discussion was about but felt I should comment!
When people post with huge amounts of bile and vitriol against any black athlete, it is quite reasonable to then ask the reasons why the poster clearly loathes the person that they are denigrating. If the poster protests their innocence, I'm fine with that, but anyone who does post such negative OTT comments is quite reasonably going to be asked why they have such a problem with the player and whether it is based on the player's skin colour.
I agree with you entirely that it is sad that there are still so few black players competing in tennis. It is still a very white middle class sport, with players, officials and spectators overwhelmingly white and middle class. It is sad that despite awesome black players right back to the likes of Yvonne Goolagong in the 1960's that this hasn't changed, but maybe a lot is to do with how tennis is perceived by the majority of people, and also the costs of taking up the sport, paying to be allowed to join clubs and get on courts to play does not really make it easy for the majority of black urban youngsters, and the sheer demographics and costs of tennis clubs help to keep tennis sadly white and middle class.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 04:53:02 PM

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 05:01:52 PM

I am presuming the first para of your response wasnt aimed at me, I dont think I posted any bile? Personally, I dont take to Serena in the way I dont take to Novak, or Zverev or several other top players. I dont think it is anything to do with race, for me it is intangible and largely to do with whether I feel a person is likely to be someone I would enjoy being mates with. So Nick K gets a thumbs up from me, as does Andy, as does Dan. And back in the day I loved and still do like Noah, Mac and many others - sadly, I dont follow the women so will stop there as I just dont know them and my liking usually ended up being based on looks (as in did I fancy them, very sadly and shallowly! And now not allowed as the age gap is too much, sadly as well).

What I agree totally with is that tennis has been less inclusive generally rather than more.

Here is a list from wiki of Black American tennis players - it needs no comment on those which are "current". And that is very sad.

A

B

C

Steve Campbell (tennis)

E

Christopher Eubanks

F

H

J

L

John Lucas II

M

N

Todd Nelson (tennis)

R

Bob Ryland

S

T

Frances Tiafoe

W

Andy Parker · Club Coach

Jon H, of course this post wasn't aimed at you. You flagged up a relevant issue brought on by the posts of others on here. I have no problem with anything you said, just to be crystal clear.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 06:00:30 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Andy Parker wrote:
Jon H, of course this post wasn't aimed at you. You flagged up a relevant issue brought on by the posts of others on here. I have no problem with anything you said, just to be crystal clear.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 05:38:42 PM

biggrin its cool, I thought not but wanted to check!!

LordBrownof · Futures level

The point remains, despite the fact that this list is incomplete (top of my head - Mmoh, Ymer, McDonald, Hev)

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Likewise JonH your post was reasoned and well balanced.

Back on topic now an interesting Serena statistic is that since she started playing Slams, only in 1998 which was her first year and 2006 has she failed to make a semi final. 23 years! Which is also the same age as he next opponent Osaka.

brittak · Satellite level

Lest we forget this is the thread for the Australian Open so meanwhile back at the tennis..

We have two quarter finals to look forward to tonight...

Barty v Muchova and
Brady v Pegula

Lets hope they are good matches and we can enjoy some excellent tennis.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

junior wrote:
Pretty offensive t shirt from Serena, "best athlete" she can't run 200 yards
If she wins this beating Halep, Osaka and Barty then women's tennis really is dooooomed

-- Edited by junior on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 09:49:55 AM

Another stat posted that shows she can run 200 yards is that she won more points on the longer rallys than Halep. So going toe to toe shes as fit as those who rely on that for their game.