For these critical of restrictions in sport and of course far wider, what restrictions would they have? - eg. say more age, vulnerability weighted, which is very tough on them ( and a minority of younger folks' behavior has been appalling ) but say shields the most at risk.

Without restrictions of some sorts, R exceeds 1, infections begin again to rise exponentially ( the old double double etc in whatever timeframe and see where that gets you ) as do deaths, and hospitals in time will be overwhelmed, with the knock-on effect on restricting other hospital treatmenrs and adding to the death tolls for non covid folk too. Don't take covid folk into hospital at all?!

It's depressing, it gets a bit circular as a reset button needs hit again, restrict more, ease more, restrict more, and of course hugely effects life and the economy. But until we get a vaccine, what to do? 

Yes ( says he yet again ) this government has been incompetent in many areas, making things worse, but gee this laissez-faire populist crowd don't want to be imposing big restrictions ( arguably some of which they should have imposed sooner ).

So, again, what should be the restrictions to concentrate on?

I think it's the inconsistencies in the government advice lack of scientific rationale (golf and tennis forbidden, but you can go fishing with a friend), lies * and inability (of certain officials) to follow their own advice that is so frustrating. Coupled with the fact that the second wave has always been predictable- see the Corona chat thread - but the government seemed to be "winging it"

* bylinetimes.com/2020/07/13/the-governments-ten-biggest-coronavirus-lies-unmasked/

-- Edited by Elegant Point on Tuesday 3rd of November 2020 07:32:03 PM

My daughter is a self employed tennis coach. The club where she does the majority of her coaching announced yesterday that it is closing completely during lockdown. However, the well known public school where she coaches a few hours a week has decided that she is effectively a member of staff and is happy for her and a number of other local coaches to continue doing individual lessons within school time, as part of their school curriculum

 

I am pleased for her that she will get some work but it seems crazily inconsistent

-- Edited by The Realist on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 10:58:53 AM

The Realist wrote:

---

My daughter is a self employed tennis coach. The club where she does the majority of her coaching announced yesterday that it is closing completely during lockdown. However, the well known public school where she coaches a few hours a week has decided that she is effectively a member of staff and is happy for her and a number of other local coaches to continue doing individual lessons within school time, as part of their school curriculum

 

I am pleased for her that she will get some work but it seems crazily inconsistent

-- Edited by The Realist on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 10:58:53 AM

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 Reinforces the 'them and us' aspect of the rules really. 

'Business' lunch meetings have been exempt from the Tier 2 'no intermingling' London rules. Why do business people need to meet for lunch? Have an office business meeting.

But it's because the business bods like to, of course. So it's been allowed.

And so all the other, 'posh', non-business people have been able to do so too because everyone turns a blind eye and they 'look' sufficiently business-like. Love the four women having lunch who said 'well, we are ex-colleagues, so we have talked about business a little bit'.

But that's one of my key problems with lockdown - it has been SO damning to the poorer classes - the wealth/class divide has been hugely widened. And that is one reason I wouldn't impose one.   

Fair point, but the 'them and us' argument still holds as I doubt many state schools have tennis coaches.

I'm more concerned about general education though. The gaps I see there are pretty horrific. Obviously it's all part of a broader problem but the gap has widened considerably.

And concerned about business lunches !!! Just taking the mick.

Oh, and Mr Cummings and why a family member couldn't have come down from Durham if childcare problems were so acute, rather than having two infectious people travelling 400 miles.

And also Mr Blair and why he thinks quarantine rules don't apply to him.

Frankly, if only 10% of symptomatic people are following self-isolation rules, I'm not surprised.

And it doesn't matter how 'good' the track and trace is - if people don't follow it when tracked and traced, then it's no good whatsoever.

Yes, too true.

The porter in the block of flats where I live in London says that not a single family/occupant has respected the 14-day quarantine when flying in (there's a lot of international travel, nearly all from countries that need quarantine, in theory).

And as for track and trace, well, to be honest, the guy's got a point. If you know that the figures for downloading it, and then for respecting it when it is downloaded and then activated, are so terribly low, why would you put yourself out there as one of the tiny minority who has to suffer? I'm not saying that's right - it's not, it's self-centred, but unfortunately many people have no choice now but to be self-centred. And, more than that, logically you know it will make no difference if the virus is now completely community spread and the respect rate is so low. So why?

As per The Independent last week:

A UK-government commissioned study of more than 30,000 people showed that just 18 per cent of people agreed to self-isolate when someone working for the countrys manual contact-tracing system actually called them and explained why. The numbers for an automated message on your peoples phones are likely to be even lower.

.....worldwide download rates of contact-tracing apps have so far been low, running approximately at 20 per cent.

Another problem is, of course, that only smartphone owners can use the apps. Given that, in the UK, 61 per cent of over-65s dont have access to a mobile internet device, this means that the largest at-risk group is much less likely to be able to benefit from contact-tracing apps.

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/contact-tracing-app-nhs-work-stop-coronavirus-b1253095.html

What makes me really MAD is that everyone talks about the restrictions but hardly anyone, even in government, talks about ENFORCEMENT.  I recall Bob In Spain talking about the draconian fines imposed on those flouting the rules there; if only there had been a similar crackdown here. It wouldn't have solved the problem  - covid cases are surging again in Spain as they are here - but strict enforcement would probably have led to less infections and less deaths, and less effect on the economy

We keep hearing about large numbers of house parties etc but hardly any fines being imposed - then they fine some students for breaching the rules but don't even investigate the rugby barbarians - Cummings gets away with his trip to Durham; Piers Corbyn is supposed to be holding one of his freedom rallies in Stroud this weekend - will he be arrested? probably not

 I really wish there was consistent rigorous enforcement of the rules against anyone and everyone who doesn't comply  - then maybe we would have a  better chance of getting back to a normal life and playing tennis etc, and most important, saving lives - sorry, rant over!