Weeks 35/36 - US Open, Flushing Meadows, New York City (hard)

LordBrownof · Futures level

RE: Weeks 35/36 - US Open, Flushing Meadows, New York City (hard)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I obviously wasn't talking about Cincy, the comment was about Jo at the US Open.

I didn't think she was playing very well against Heather, (although I realise it's sometimes a little tricky against a compatriot).

And, yes, I'm not trying to knock her - it wasn't awful, there were good bits too, in her Cirstea match.

But, overall, I think it was disappointing, she didn't adapt in any way to what Cirstea was doing as the game went on, and was obviously having trouble, either with the heat, or whatever, but her play was flat.

As said, it's hardy tragic - look at Kiki's loss for something truly, monumentally 'tragic' (which rather pleased me as I think she's been out of order in her moaning about the supposed bad treatment she's suffered). But it wasn't very good....

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Even allowing for the cancellation of Wimbledon and the French yet to be held it has been a fallow year in tbe Grand Slams for victories for our female players. So far the total is 3 and one of those was Jo beating Heather.The last time we only had 3 wins was 2014 and only 2 in 2009 by Bally. We had a very bleak time from 1993 to 2010 when there was only 1 year in 1998 when we had more than 4 wins. 2019 was 18 but that was a reflection of peak Jo.

indiana · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Even allowing for the cancellation of Wimbledon and the French yet to be held it has been a fallow year in tbe Grand Slams for victories for our female players. So far the total is 3 and one of those was Jo beating Heather.The last time we only had 3 wins was 2014 and only 2 in 2009 by Bally. We had a very bleak time from 1993 to 2010 when there was only 1 year in 1998 when we had more than 4 wins. 2019 was 18 but that was a reflection of peak Jo.

Not great. Though that's quite a big allowance.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

LordBrownof wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
None of this 'the draw was tricky' argument, though, really confronts the problem that JoKo wasn't playing that well
I think that's a little unfair. Jo played very well during the Cincy tournament - she was certainly nearing her best form from previous years. The second serve was back, spinning high above opponents shoulders and causing all sorts of troubles (as an aside, her second serve was ranked number 1 on the tour last year).
Similarly, she played well in her first match here and the first set and a half here. Sorana is no slouch and was unusually solid - very few unforced errors. Jo had a ton of breakpoints in the second - take one of them and we would have all been waxing lyrical about what a good first few rounds she'd had.
If you're referring only to the third set, I'd be more inclined to agree. As said before a few times, there's little to no plan b and as I wrote on another thread, the speed of her first serve in the third set really dropped. I counted only twice it hit 100. There were a number of first serves in the 70-90 range. Clearly, with a game like Jo's, that means trouble.
As I'm in the US, I was listening to the ESPN+ commentary with former player Olga Savchuk who worked a little with Thomas Hogstedt when he was Makarova's coach. She described his coaching style as "out and out aggressive". Shorter training sessions more intense aggressive hitting. Doesn't bode well for a player needing a plan b. That's a shame particulalry now - I felt like a lot of the success on clay last summer was down to the fact she was willing and able to work players out. She won a number of matches not playing particualrly well.

Comments are made about Jo taking Hogstedt as a coach. But the situation occured because corona virus made having Zavialoff as coach was no longer practical. ..

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Remember when Jo played Su Wei Hsieh at the 1st round French 2017. Somewhat similar to the Cirstea match with a scoreline of 1-6, 7-6 , 6-4.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

indiana wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Even allowing for the cancellation of Wimbledon and the French yet to be held it has been a fallow year in tbe Grand Slams for victories for our female players. So far the total is 3 and one of those was Jo beating Heather.The last time we only had 3 wins was 2014 and only 2 in 2009 by Bally. We had a very bleak time from 1993 to 2010 when there was only 1 year in 1998 when we had more than 4 wins. 2019 was 18 but that was a reflection of peak Jo.
Not great. Though that's quite a big allowance.

If you look at the British game starting in the Open era in 1968 the most singles won by any British woman in a single year is shared by Ann Jones in 1969 and Jo Durie in 1983 with 15. The next best is 14 by Ann Jones in 1968 and Jo in 2019. The peak for total wins was 33 in 1969. In 1977 we had 30 wins and 1984 with 20 was the last time we had 20 or over.

HarryGem · Club Coach

Jo's result needs to be viewed in the context of where her game is right now and that looks, sadly, to be in a position of steady and gentle decline. She's won very few matches in the last 12 months or so due to Covid obviously but also due to a combination of her knee injury and I have to say a decline in the level of tennis she plays.

To win she needs to be 100% fit and her serve needs to be big. When was the last time she served continuously well? Even her wins in the previous tournament, though good results, were just ok and frankly what you would expect of a player with her ranking. Flipkens was dreadful, Sakkari was almost certainly mentally burnt out after beating Serena, and Zvonereva was good 10 years ago.

Her win against Heather also needs to be seen for what it was. A decent performance against an opponent who looks unfit and with little tennis in her legs.

The disappointing element for me is that both agains Azarenka and against Cirstea she started well but fell away badly. There isn't and, hasn't really ever been, a plan B to her game.
The question for me is how much does she really want it any more?

It is, of course, difficult for all players due to the Covid pandemic and lack of matches and results need to be viewed in this context, but, it is hard to be especially optimistic in regards to British women's tennis right now.

More worrying overall is that Jo and Heather remain, by some way, our top 2 female tennis players and at 29 and 28 respectively they can't have that much longer at the top of the game, even if that is what they want. The next group of players are simply nowhere and it is hard to see any of them breaking through in the next couple of years.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Some fair points there Harry.

No more Konta unfortunately, but still a great OOP on paper for the women today, and the matches have been spread out a lot better than most of the week where the bulk of the matches seem to be scheduled early and over within a few hours of play - there's only one match at 4pm (11am) today (Anisimova vs Sakkari).

Which women's match are people most looking forward to today? Stephens has been really poor for well over a year, and she has had a very generous passage through thus far, and will probably be out of her depth a little later, but I'm still looking forward to Serena vs Stephens, and it'll be on around 7.30/8pm )UK time) which is another bonus.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I see the babos and mladenovic doubles isnt scheduled today. Have they been defaulted ?

the addict · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
I see the babos and mladenovic doubles isnt scheduled today. Have they been defaulted ?

They are still in the draw at the moment, but the other three second round matches are on the schedule.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
I see the babos and mladenovic doubles isnt scheduled today. Have they been defaulted ?
They are still in the draw at the moment, but the other three second round matches are on the schedule.

Mmm.

the addict · Tennis legend

The twitter rumours are saying they've been pulled from the draw - but no confirmation of anything yet.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
The twitter rumours are saying they've been pulled from the draw - but no confirmation of anything yet.

It's what I expected. Mladenovic will not be happy!

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

BBC reported just now on Five Live that Mladenovic was withdrawn, presumably by health officials as per last nights issue with Mannarino.