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Post Info TOPIC: Foreign Dependency


Intermediate Club Player

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Foreign Dependency


I know I'm heading into taboo topic here and I'll either get my account closed down and/or the LTA show up at my door. Any coaches, players or parents here can give me an actual reason why the LTA refuses to acknowledge foreign help they have received with their players etc etc? 

 

I know that most of the British players have trained elsewhere etc, and for the LTA to publicly acknowledge it would be wrong and show them as a weaker tennis nation, but to completely ignore it to portray their own agendas is also a wrong decision is it not?

I've been out of the UK for some time but I do know that there are more than a fair few foreign coaches in the UK now, A lovely young lady who I was talking to about Nike British summer camps in places like Bisham abbey etc recently was also from Spain. I see (and in the past) have applied for jobs in the UK which (without trying to sound big headed) I was far above qualification and experience wise to have received such comments back from the people which were not only completely unreal but also disrespectful to some of the greats of our game. I am still a British National, all I did, much like others was leave England to train abroad when I was younger and to stay around, now I think of it I have met very few British coaches around over here, I often thought it was due to the financial difficulties or the roots and opportunity in the UK, but this might be due to the difficulties to adapt to this lifestyle and take positions from Spanish coaches. How is this the same viceversa? that they point blank refuse to accept coaches who may even bring a different kind of knowledge, motivation and training system to players that has actual proof to help creating players for the future. Not wanting this to turn into a rant, is anyone maybe a little bit more aware of the policies and opinions of the LTA etc?



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Challenger level

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I can't answer your question but assure you it's not a taboo subject here at all. I'm sure others will have input?

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ATP qualifying

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I don't think there are any foreign coaches at the NTC (apart from Louis Cayer - Canadian) but there have been foreign heads of coaching there in the past.  And I have come across quite a number of coaches at the various academies with a Spanish background.  Also quite a few from Hungary, Croatia and that region. Obviously coaches vary but I would say they do bring something a bit different.  My own experience is that those with a Spanish background tend to do more drilling and repetition with their pupils.  I do feel though, that the further you go on the LTA pathway the more British the coaching becomes (coaches at the higher level are often our ex-professional players) and to me it does all seem a bit cosy.  However, there is nothing stopping a player from paying for their own coach from anywhere in the world.



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County player

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The Optimist wrote:

. . .  I do feel though, that the further you go on the LTA pathway the more British the coaching becomes (coaches at the higher level are often our ex-professional players) and to me it does all seem a bit cosy.  However, there is nothing stopping a player from paying for their own coach from anywhere in the world.


Apart from Cayer, there's not much British either about Brad Gilbert, Julien Hoferlin, Paul Annacone, Carl Maes and Peter Lundgren. Even John LLoyd  was a California resident. The one British coach who was right up there, David Feldgate, was sacked, presumably to allow Draper to bring in his foreign jobsworths.

And who have this stellar bunch produced? No one.

 



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ATP qualifying

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EddietheEagle wrote:
The Optimist wrote:

. . .  I do feel though, that the further you go on the LTA pathway the more British the coaching becomes (coaches at the higher level are often our ex-professional players) and to me it does all seem a bit cosy.  However, there is nothing stopping a player from paying for their own coach from anywhere in the world.


Apart from Cayer, there's not much British either about Brad Gilbert, Julien Hoferlin, Paul Annacone, Carl Maes and Peter Lundgren. Even John LLoyd  was a California resident. The one British coach who was right up there, David Feldgate, was sacked, presumably to allow Draper to bring in his foreign jobsworths.

And who have this stellar bunch produced? No one.

 


 As I said, there have been plenty of foreigners heading up the coaching.  But those who are actually on court with the players at the NTC are largely British ex-professional players.



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Intermediate Club Player

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Nothing going on at the NTC, maybe at the two National academies where they can't even secure enough players to train there for free?

 

I do believe this goes much deeper than just at a coaching level, now I mention the national tennis academies, I believe on of the players they have might indeed be looking for a way out as well.... what does this say about the latest schemes? 



-- Edited by junior on Tuesday 18th of February 2020 11:40:41 AM

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County player

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The Optimist wrote:

 

 As I said, there have been plenty of foreigners heading up the coaching.  But those who are actually on court with the players at the NTC are largely British ex-professional players.


I think you're referring to wannabees. The only ex-professional players I can think of are Henman, Rusedski, Wilkinson and Bates.

With regard to academies in general, I hear of players moving away from these formal academy structures towards a more a la carte approach which some high level coaches are now favouring. I don't know why the LTA remain so besotted with the idea but there again, you would never expect the LTA to be ahead of the curve.  



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Intermediate Club Player

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Maybe a better word than wannabee is more appropriate, 

 

As far as Henners, Greg , Chris and Jeremy bates: I think they're mostly involved in the schemes development pathway of the LTA (plus commentary, junior Davis cup captain etc), Chris Wilkinson lives in Portsmouth so difficult to see him at the NTC daily and I think Jeremy bates spends time in places like La Manga and took on one of these younger girls for a time a few years ago (Boultier, Dart?).

 

Some more of the older names, I was very surprised when Kyle Edmund brought an old name out recently as a coach, Mark Hilton (lefty not that tall), Martin Lee has the academy at Bisham and was giving private lessons to my brother, Arvind Palmer is at regents park or dukes meadows one of the london clubs, Barry Cowan hopefully has retired even from tennis commentary, Miles Mclaghan might still be floating around (also took on a female player some years ago who I can remember who, Robson?)



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Futures level

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junior wrote:

Maybe a better word than wannabee is more appropriate, 

 

As far as Henners, Greg , Chris and Jeremy bates: I think they're mostly involved in the schemes development pathway of the LTA (plus commentary, junior Davis cup captain etc), Chris Wilkinson lives in Portsmouth so difficult to see him at the NTC daily and I think Jeremy bates spends time in places like La Manga and took on one of these younger girls for a time a few years ago (Boultier, Dart?).

 

Some more of the older names, I was very surprised when Kyle Edmund brought an old name out recently as a coach, Mark Hilton (lefty not that tall), Martin Lee has the academy at Bisham and was giving private lessons to my brother, Arvind Palmer is at regents park or dukes meadows one of the london clubs, Barry Cowan hopefully has retired even from tennis commentary, Miles Mclaghan might still be floating around (also took on a female player some years ago who I can remember who, Robson?)


 Jeremy Bates was coaching Katie Boulter until her back problem and I think he still is her coach. Miles McLagen was coaching Laura Robson during the summer of 2012 until she discontinued the arrangement. I think he was her coach when she had her wrist injury which derailed her career.

 

 



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ATP qualifying

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Jeremy B is both Head of Women's Tennis and Katie B's coach.  I was thinking more of people like Katie O'Brien who looks after the junior girls teams, Arvind P who was up at the NTC for quite a while but is now at Dukes Meadows as stated above.  It's that level of ex GB player who tends to be on the court on a day to day basis at the NTC.  Obviously there are other coaches up there such as Richard Plews (Jazzi's dad).  Am assuming it is similar at the two main academies but I am not sure.



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Tennis legend

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When I was a teenager, I had a coach called Simon Ickringill, who was 9 time Yorkshire Champion but never made anything beyond that top of the county game level. He became Head coach for many years at Ilkley and ran all of the playing and coaching side there, plus ran the club shop. I think it was a nice earner for him generally.

Do any of the top players do that ie become club pro and general main man at any of the top clubs , in a similar way to what we might all expect to see at a decent sized golf club?

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Intermediate Club Player

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The Optimist wrote:

Jeremy B is both Head of Women's Tennis and Katie B's coach.  I was thinking more of people like Katie O'Brien who looks after the junior girls teams, Arvind P who was up at the NTC for quite a while but is now at Dukes Meadows as stated above.  It's that level of ex GB player who tends to be on the court on a day to day basis at the NTC.  Obviously there are other coaches up there such as Richard Plews (Jazzi's dad).  Am assuming it is similar at the two main academies but I am not sure.


 Pretty sure the reason why they wouldn't be is either money or politics, can guarantee that head of women's tennis post will go to one judy murray when she wishes for it. The NTC failed for a reason even after the 4 million revamp, leave Annabel croft to her seniors academy there wink



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Intermediate Club Player

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JonH comes home wrote:

When I was a teenager, I had a coach called Simon Ickringill, who was 9 time Yorkshire Champion but never made anything beyond that top of the county game level. He became Head coach for many years at Ilkley and ran all of the playing and coaching side there, plus ran the club shop. I think it was a nice earner for him generally.

Do any of the top players do that ie become club pro and general main man at any of the top clubs , in a similar way to what we might all expect to see at a decent sized golf club?


 Depends on a few things really, interest, need etc

A lot of past players do dedicate themselves to being coaches etc, however if they were that good its unlikely to see them down your local club giving an hour session to 65 year old janet in the mornings. We're lead to believe tennis is cheap and or attainable, it isn't. Even more in England where the ex-pros aren't all that well known or ever reached the height of tennis. 

Obviously this involves a lot of dedication, travelling, weekends etc

Most of the ex players with their own academies do have their own players either on the side or as part of their academy. (Francesc Roig- Rafa, Sergi Bruguera-Tsonga, Juan Carlos Ferrero-Alcaraz etc etc)



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Tennis legend

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junior wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

When I was a teenager, I had a coach called Simon Ickringill, who was 9 time Yorkshire Champion but never made anything beyond that top of the county game level. He became Head coach for many years at Ilkley and ran all of the playing and coaching side there, plus ran the club shop. I think it was a nice earner for him generally.

Do any of the top players do that ie become club pro and general main man at any of the top clubs , in a similar way to what we might all expect to see at a decent sized golf club?


 Depends on a few things really, interest, need etc

A lot of past players do dedicate themselves to being coaches etc, however if they were that good its unlikely to see them down your local club giving an hour session to 65 year old janet in the mornings. We're lead to believe tennis is cheap and or attainable, it isn't. Even more in England where the ex-pros aren't all that well known or ever reached the height of tennis. 

Obviously this involves a lot of dedication, travelling, weekends etc

Most of the ex players with their own academies do have their own players either on the side or as part of their academy. (Francesc Roig- Rafa, Sergi Bruguera-Tsonga, Juan Carlos Ferrero-Alcaraz etc etc)


 Do Emilio Sanchez and Sergio Casal have any tour players they work with outside of the Sanchez-Casal academies in Florida?



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County player

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I see they have four Carlos Kickabouts up at Stirling.

Why aren't British coaches being deployed in these jobs and why don't we present our own brand of all court style of playing the game?

Annabel Croft's academy for rich kids and duffers needs closing down forthwith. It's tantamount to a gross misuse of LTA members' assets.

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