Week 7 - ITF (W25) Glasgow, GBR Hard

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Week 7 - ITF (W25) Glasgow, GBR Hard

Peter too · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
To add my pennyworth to the debate on the W15's as a stepping stone onto the tour.

Wind the clock back almost 6 years to August 2015 and the first ITF I went to as a spectator - Chiswick and it was a 10k in those days.

There were 15 British girls in as direct entries, plus 4 wild cards (Emily App and Jodie were two) and 7 qualifiers - so just 6 outsiders (which included Lily Miyazaki and Elaine Genovese).
The top two seeds were Katy Dunne WR342 and Harriet Dart WR345. And Naomi Cavaday played Helen Parish in the first round !

The opportunities were there for the younger players, many of the names feature regularly in this forum. But now it is much, much harder to get on the ladder, as many here before me have discussed at length.

Go back to 2011 and we even ran a clay court $10K event in Bournemouth. Players included Sam Murray ranked 808, unranked Katie Boulter winning her way through qualifying to reach the QF and 14 years old unranked Katy Dunne with a WC into the main draw, taking the number 6 seed to three sets.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I recall we ran a series of back to back futures before that, Bournemouth, newcastle (jesmond) and edinburgh. For several seasons.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

After 18 year-old Clara Burel's years of niggles, her left wrist surgery and road to recovery, great to see her make the semi-finals here.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
After 18 year-old Clara Burel's years of niggles, her left wrist surgery and road to recovery, great to see her make the semi-finals here.

Yes it is great to see. 8 wins in a row now as well, and that anticipated semi final with Tauson is on.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Argh. Burel retired at 0-3 in the battle of the young Clara's, so that was an anti climax. Hopefully it is just a case of matches catching up (although it was very early in the match), and not a recurring, or new, injury.

It's been a bit of a graveyard tournament with Benoit's 3 opponents retiring, Eikeri retiring in the doubles, and now this.

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Saturday 22nd of February 2020 11:16:05 AM

Michael D · All-time great

And Benoit is in the other SF who Emma was on course to beat in the first round when she fell and injured herself...

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Stuart Fraser of The Times summed up the British effort at Glasgow under the heading British women struggling. His comment was that this week's lower-tier ITF tournament in Glasgow provides yet more proof that the British women's tennis is nowhere near as strong as people in the game make out.

indiana · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Stuart Fraser of The Times summed up the British effort at Glasgow under the heading British women struggling. His comment was that this week's lower-tier ITF tournament in Glasgow provides yet more proof that the British women's tennis is nowhere near as strong as people in the game make out.

Clearly not great. But I do hope that he at least gave some of the context that people here have.

I know that he is ex of this parish but, on admitted limited reading of his articles, I don't find Stuart Fraser to be the most insighful of tennis writers.

Michael D · All-time great

indiana wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Stuart Fraser of The Times summed up the British effort at Glasgow under the heading British women struggling. His comment was that this week's lower-tier ITF tournament in Glasgow provides yet more proof that the British women's tennis is nowhere near as strong as people in the game make out.
Clearly not great. But I do hope that he at least gave some of the context that people here have.
I know that he is ex of this parish but, on admitted limited reading of his articles, I don't find Stuart Fraser to be the most insighful of tennis writers.

Yes stating that only 1 of our top 10 women was playing here and that the player who will be in the top 10 soon injured herself whilst leading against a player who reached the SF might have added a little to that lack of context.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Michael D wrote:
indiana wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Stuart Fraser of The Times summed up the British effort at Glasgow under the heading British women struggling. His comment was that this week's lower-tier ITF tournament in Glasgow provides yet more proof that the British women's tennis is nowhere near as strong as people in the game make out.
Clearly not great. But I do hope that he at least gave some of the context that people here have.
I know that he is ex of this parish but, on admitted limited reading of his articles, I don't find Stuart Fraser to be the most insighful of tennis writers.
Yes stating that only 1 of our top 10 women was playing here and that the player who will be in the top 10 soon injured herself whilst leading against a player who reached the SF might have added a little to that lack of context.

Fair comment but which out of our current top 10 give ground for optimism? Heather and Harriet have had their moments . I accept that Jo's knee problem appears to be chronic,, a couple of others are returning from injury, but one of our top 10 lost to a player from Papua New Guinea last week and the most interesting comment about one of the others was if they had a potential modelling career.

Maybe we should also include his comment that " the results did not give much cause for celebration, either. "

-- Edited by ROSAMUND on Sunday 23rd of February 2020 08:54:29 AM

HarryGem · Club Coach

ROSAMUND wrote:
Michael D wrote:
indiana wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Stuart Fraser of The Times summed up the British effort at Glasgow under the heading British women struggling. His comment was that this week's lower-tier ITF tournament in Glasgow provides yet more proof that the British women's tennis is nowhere near as strong as people in the game make out.
Clearly not great. But I do hope that he at least gave some of the context that people here have.
I know that he is ex of this parish but, on admitted limited reading of his articles, I don't find Stuart Fraser to be the most insighful of tennis writers.
Yes stating that only 1 of our top 10 women was playing here and that the player who will be in the top 10 soon injured herself whilst leading against a player who reached the SF might have added a little to that lack of context.
Fair comment but which out of our current top 10 give ground for optimism? Heather and Harriet have had their moments . I accept that Jo's knee problem appears to be chronic,, a couple of others are returning from injury, but one of our top 10 lost to a player from Papua New Guinea last week and the most interesting comment about one of the others was if they had a potential modelling career.
Maybe we should also include his comment that " the results did not give much cause for celebration, either. "

-- Edited by ROSAMUND on Sunday 23rd of February 2020 08:54:29 AM

As ever with these types of discussions there requires both balance and perspective. However, I think one thing we can probably all agree on is that right at this moment is that British Women's tennis faces quite a few challenges both in the immediate future and in the long term.

When you look at our current top 10 it is striking that our numbers 1 and 2 will be 29 and 28 respectively within a few days of each other and out NO.8 will be 30 at exactly the same time and really only perfoms on clay. Add to the mix, Sam, who is 32.

The issue for me is further down the age chain. In the next group, say the 22-26 year olds, really when you should be perfoming or at the very least starting to perfom at your highest level, (I know there are egs of players who develop late but not that many after they reach 26), we essentially have Dart, Baines, Lumsden, Boulter and Dunne. Of those I would say Boulter if she can stay fit has the most potential. Dart may also reach the top 100 but it is not a given. Of the others it is hard to see them rising that high. Whilst I compliment Baines on her commitment to the game it has taken her 28 tournaments to reach the top 200 (I realise only 16 count).

Of the 18-21 year olds I really don't know who will emerge. And at the bottom end of the rankings young players in this age group or younger seem to be stuck pretty much in the lowest rank of the pro game. With the exception of Emma R none seem to be currently showing many signs of emerging though of course there is still time.

We also seem to have a lot of injuries. I'm sure there are some on here who could give a better perspective on our situation in comparison to other countries. We call it bad luck and though to a certain extent this is true I do question how we look after our players. Whilst tennis is largely an individual sport this is one area where a collective national approach could be made to work. Maybe we do this already??

Status Quo · Intermediate Club Player

We should not be expecting our top players to be routinely attendant at the penultimate tier of professional tennis. That shows an alarming lack of ambition and subterranean expectations. That they are not here is of, and should be of, no consequence.

We should be able to field additional players - those for whom $25K would be their actual or aspirational tournament level - in tournaments such as these and expect more times than not to get a player or players through to the latter rounds, routinely. As happens with other similar nations. Won't get a winner every time, or even perhaps a semi-finallst, but you should be able to take something useful away from, at the very least, every other event.

But we don't, because??? Why???
We can tie ourselves in gymnastic cognitively dissonant knots in order to minimise things. Or, we can be objective and look at the deep underlying deficiencies GB has in it's tennis.
Again, why and how are our very dedicated, hard-working players being failed, and why do so many other peer nations, and those without our resource, seem to manage to outperform us?

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Back to the event, Clara Tauson beat the 3rd seed Tomova 0 and 4 in under an hour to take her 3rd title at 25k or above (other 2 were W60s). Her match with Friedsam in R2 lasted 3 hours, so that was probably the real final.

Strongbow · All-time great

Status Quo wrote:
We should not be expecting our top players to be routinely attendant at the penultimate tier of professional tennis. That shows an alarming lack of ambition and subterranean expectations. That they are not here is of, and should be of, no consequence.

We should be able to field additional players - those for whom $25K would be their actual or aspirational tournament level - in tournaments such as these and expect more times than not to get a player or players through to the latter rounds, routinely. As happens with other similar nations. Won't get a winner every time, or even perhaps a semi-finallst, but you should be able to take something useful away from, at the very least, every other event.

But we don't, because??? Why???
We can tie ourselves in gymnastic cognitively dissonant knots in order to minimise things. Or, we can be objective and look at the deep underlying deficiencies GB has in it's tennis.
Again, why and how are our very dedicated, hard-working players being failed, and why do so many other peer nations, and those without our resource, seem to manage to outperform us?

Well said