Week 47 - Davis Cup Finals - Madrid, Spain - (Indoor, Hard).

indiana · Tennis legend

Week 47 - Davis Cup Finals - Madrid, Spain - (Indoor, Hard).

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

wolf wrote:
Joke of a format which should not be persevered with, although I'm not stupid I know it's set.

Give people a chance to watch a tie in their home country and take tennis to the people in areas it's not normally. It's not rocket science.

My own view is that it is the players that ultimately determine if an event if a serious event or not. this week, the players were emotionally engaged and it was clear to me that they saw this as the Davis Cup, World Team Cup of tennis or call it what we will. Fans will engage more when they realise it is a serious event and, IMO, leave the history behind and support their teams in a new format which, on the whole, worked. Clearly the late nights cant continue and two venues in one city or a 10 day event are required, but those can be worked on and managed over time.

I think Joke of a format is too strong and doesnt tally with what I saw and engaged with. for me it worked well. And I was one before hand who was strongly against it, so feel those views are very valid.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
A few things have saved the week, indeed undoubtably leaving it enjoyable at times.

The tennis was very good and consistently close - and the actual tennis is tather important!

Spain and their support reached the final ! ( and just for us, we reached the SF ).

The organisers got a fairly easy ride with the awful 6 group format. All groups finished 2/1/0 rather than any being 1/1/1 ( and so really mixing up group winners with the best runners up ) and neither walkover effected the 2 best runners up, the beneficiaries ending 3rd and 4th runners up.

Won't be as fortunate every year with this current format so it is essential that they sort out some of the negative issues such as scheduling and attendances or it risks being overall a worse experience than this year.

Bob's little look at the Canada vs Russia Davis Cup SF told a story and while I suspect a non Spain final would have been quite a bit better how full would it have been? How atmospheric? The attendances and atmosphere against home & away ties, particularly the latest stages but other stages too, remain a biggie to me. A solution? I don't know ( nor do I have a solution to betrer scheduling home & away ties other than cutting down some of the rest of the overstretched calendar for which there seems no will ). Anyone any improvement ideas ? Scheduling / extra court(s) certainly seems a starter.

For as wolf says, we are going to be stuck with thiis basic set-up for a while at least.

Lets not forget some of the basic flaws of the old DC format .Whilst home and away may have created great atmosphere and taken tennis to locations not often associated with tennis; two key flaws existed.

1) I have no stats but from memory, many ties ended up 3-0 after 2 days. the third day crowds got dead matches or didnt bother. No good for TV or crowds watching in person. In 2018, 4 out of 15 matches had no live 3rd day matches, in 2017 , it was 6 out of 15. So maybe 1/3 overall, and around 10 out of 15 had a dead 5th rubber. If I had paid good money for that (as a spectator or TV company) I would be annoyed

2) Surface choice - home teams win in DC , that has always been known and thus the event was somewhat of a lottery. In 2018 10 out of 15 home teams won, in 2017, it was 11 out of 15. So over 2/3rds in past two years. Home advantage really was home advantage.

2018 Spain v GB in Marbella. 2017 France v GB in Rouen. both on clay, both defeats we totally predicted. Not sure how those matches where good for anyone.

We recall the old format with rose tinted glasses I am afraid, and I was one of those. Lets give this new format a try.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
A few things have saved the week, indeed undoubtably leaving it enjoyable at times.

The tennis was very good and consistently close - and the actual tennis is rather important!

Spain and their support reached the final ! ( and just for us, we reached the SF ).

The organisers got a fairly easy ride with the awful 6 group format. All groups finished 2/1/0 rather than any being 1/1/1 ( and so really mixing up group winners with the best runners up ) and neither walkover effected the 2 best runners up, the beneficiaries ending 3rd and 4th runners up.

Won't be as fortunate every year with this current format so it is essential that they sort out some of the negative issues such as scheduling and attendances or it risks being overall a rather worse experience than this year.

Bob's sneaky little look at the Canada vs Russia Davis Cup SF told a story and while I suspect a non Spain final would have been quite a bit better attended than that SF, how full would it have been? How atmospheric? The attendances and atmosphere against home & away ties, particularly the latest stages but other stages too, remain a biggie to me. A solution? I don't know ( nor do I have a solution to better scheduling home & away ties other than cutting down some of the rest of the overstretched calendar for which there seems no will ). Anyone any improvement ideas? Scheduling / extra court(s) certainly seems a starter.

For as wolf says, we are going to be stuck with this basic set-up for a while at least.

Dont be a killjoy Indy, admit it was enjoyable at most times!

seagull · Hall of fame

Is it always going to be in Spain? If so thats a hell of an advantage.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

seagull wrote:
Is it always going to be in Spain? If so thats a hell of an advantage.

Well, the French have Roland Garros but home advantage hasn't seemed to help them, as they keep moaning.... (Nor many other home nations for the other Grand Slams either)

flamingowings · All-time great

seagull wrote:
Is it always going to be in Spain? If so thats a hell of an advantage.

This article makes a reference to it leaving Madrid in 2021. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/24/davis-cup-gb-strength-to-strength

seagull · Hall of fame

Coup Droit wrote:
seagull wrote:
Is it always going to be in Spain? If so thats a hell of an advantage.
Well, the French have Roland Garros but home advantage hasn't seemed to help them, as they keep moaning.... (Nor many other home nations for the other Grand Slams either)

Not sure you can compare a team event, to an individual Grand Slam.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

seagull wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
seagull wrote:
Is it always going to be in Spain? If so thats a hell of an advantage.
Well, the French have Roland Garros but home advantage hasn't seemed to help them, as they keep moaning.... (Nor many other home nations for the other Grand Slams either)
Not sure you can compare a team event, to an individual Grand Slam.

Yeah, I wondered about that when I posted it....

But I'm not sure I can see a major difference - after all, the crowd noise/support when Andy plays at Wimbly is pretty mega. And the US and Oz are even more raucous for their player.....

seagull · Hall of fame

True and I'm sure it gives the home players a boost..But France, Australia and USA (and until Andy GB), have not had a player capable of winning a GS for many years, so amount of noise can make that happen. Having said that the way Nadal was playing probably would have won it anywhere in the world.

Jimmy09 · Intermediate Club Player

I personally loved the format. Rather than matches played here and there players can factor this into their schedule. Thought it made for a thoroughly enjoyable and competitive week. Yes there are things that need to change but as a whole i thought it was a great success and clearly meant a lot to the players involved. Don't get me wrong i loved the whole home and away atmosphere but the home nation just dictated what the surface etc the matches were played on to try and gain an advantage.
I would ditch the 'best runners up' in the group. Didn't like it one bit and could have got very unnecessarily complicated.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Jimmy09 wrote:
I personally loved the format. Rather than matches played here and there players can factor this into their schedule. Thought it made for a thoroughly enjoyable and competitive week. Yes there are things that need to change but as a whole i thought it was a great success and clearly meant a lot to the players involved. Don't get me wrong i loved the whole home and away atmosphere but the home nation just dictated what the surface etc the matches were played on to try and gain an advantage.
I would ditch the 'best runners up' in the group. Didn't like it one bit and could have got very unnecessarily complicated.

Agree with most of this. Amends needed, but a lot to work with.

They'll definitely need to sit down and brainstorm stuff to get things about as right as they can. Regarding the best runners up, that's complicated in itself - it could indeed have been a disaster if USA or Belgium qualified after benefiting from a doubles walkover/retirement, but without it, some nations would have been out after one tie. They'd have had to have done what they do in WTA Zhuhai where the loser of the first tie plays the team who hasn't played, before the winner plays again, because 2 wins and the group could have been over before a nation has even played their second match, but then if they did that, they wouldn't be able to do the schedule until very late (after 4am in some cases, which also needs to change), which makes it impossible for fans to plan and buy tickets for their nations matches - particularly the Spanish. 16 teams, 4 x 4 (and top 2 going through) has been discussed on here, but as I say - it really does need a lot of planning for even little things to ensure it runs the best it can, so there was actually method in their best runners up proposal, and kept ties and groups alive, but they did get quite lucky with situations and it would have been a huge problem if Belgium's doubles 'win' knocked out a nation like GB who has a big media presence.

I'll be very interested to see what amends they do make for 2020.

Jimmy09 · Intermediate Club Player

It's a disaster waiting to happen isn't it in that respect.

There's a lot of positives to build on and it's certainly something i will be looking forward to watching next year

Jimmy09 · Intermediate Club Player

Fantastic effort by the way by the GB team. Hopefully the guys get some confidence from this heading into the new season.
How Jamie Murray has achieved what he has though is one of lifes great mysteries

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

I really enjoyed watching it. I'm kind of surprised Andy didn't get a doubles slot in one of the matches with Jamie, but he (or perhaps Leon/Jamie) obviously didn't think that was a good idea. However Nadal didn't have any such qualms taking over from a doubles specialist. I get that he wasn't fully match fit, but surely doubles would have been fine. All due respect to Mr Skupski, but I think Andy could have offered something to counter the Nadal impact.

I was very sceptical at first, but do see a good future for this event now. I thought I would miss the 5 set matches the most, but having sat and watched a lot of it, 3 sets is fine. Don't think they should shorten the doubles third set, like some were suggesting, especially when a tie can be decided on it.