Week 33 - WTA Premier 5, Western & Southern Open ($2,944,486) Cincinnati, OH - Hard

ROSAMUND · Futures level

RE: Week 33 - WTA Premier 5, Western & Southern Open ($2,944,486) Cincinnati, OH - Hard

Andy Parker · Club Coach

The only thing I would say is that at the Grand Slams this year, Jo has performed well. There is a line of argument that says that some players as they get older, only really are super-motivated by the Grand Slams and so their results in the tournaments in between are nowhere as good as to how they perform on the big stage. Jo could well fit this pattern, and if she suddenly performs really well at the US Open in a couple of weeks, then this theory holds a little more water. It isn't necessarily that the player doesn't care about Cincinnati or any other main tour event, but they know that at the end of their career, the wider public (as opposed to tennis boffins) will judge them on how they have done at the Slams, and Jo must feel the sands of time running out and that her best chances to win a Slam are here and now, and I am sure she is desperate to do that and probably a lot less motivated to win the tour events in between.

Over the last few years other players who I have noticed seriously raise their game at the slams way beyond their ranking would include Petra Martic and Timea Babos - Martic was often outside the top 100 and then would make a Slam and reach the last 16 or 32 beating far better opponents along the way, and it was inescapable to feel that the big events and the big crowds made her into a completely different player to how she performed in the rest of the year. I feel Jo may be going the same way as she gets to the autumn of her career.

I think one thing that complicates how we see Jo's year is that dreadful loss to Strycova - I don't think anyone saw it coming, but if you take that loss out of the equation, then objectively she did really well at the French and Wimbledon, and has had a much better year than me or many others were expecting.

LordBrownof · Futures level

Andy Parker wrote:
The only thing I would say is that at the Grand Slams this year, Jo has performed well. There is a line of argument that says that some players as they get older, only really are super-motivated by the Grand Slams and so their results in the tournaments in between are nowhere as good as to how they perform on the big stage. Jo could well fit this pattern, and if she suddenly performs really well at the US Open in a couple of weeks, then this theory holds a little more water. It isn't necessarily that the player doesn't care about Cincinnati or any other main tour event, but they know that at the end of their career, the wider public (as opposed to tennis boffins) will judge them on how they have done at the Slams, and Jo must feel the sands of time running out and that her best chances to win a Slam are here and now, and I am sure she is desperate to do that and probably a lot less motivated to win the tour events in between.

Over the last few years other players who I have noticed seriously raise their game at the slams way beyond their ranking would include Petra Martic and Timea Babos - Martic was often outside the top 100 and then would make a Slam and reach the last 16 or 32 beating far better opponents along the way, and it was inescapable to feel that the big events and the big crowds made her into a completely different player to how she performed in the rest of the year. I feel Jo may be going the same way as she gets to the autumn of her career.

I think one thing that complicates how we see Jo's year is that dreadful loss to Strycova - I don't think anyone saw it coming, but if you take that loss out of the equation, then objectively she did really well at the French and Wimbledon, and has had a much better year than me or many others were expecting.

Completely agree on your final point re Strycova. It's really important we try and keep perspective. In 4 short years, Jo has reached 3 SFs on 3 different surfaces and 2 QFs on two different surfaces. Her game, like Muguruza, Keys and others, is hit and miss, so peaks and troughs are totally normal. I agree that the US Open, if the surface is quicker than last year, could be another great opportunity for Jo and I'm unconcerned about the last two results.

Hope to get to the Bronx tournament next week so will report back on Jo's match!

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Andy Parker wrote:
The only thing I would say is that at the Grand Slams this year, Jo has performed well. There is a line of argument that says that some players as they get older, only really are super-motivated by the Grand Slams and so their results in the tournaments in between are nowhere as good as to how they perform on the big stage. Jo could well fit this pattern, and if she suddenly performs really well at the US Open in a couple of weeks, then this theory holds a little more water. It isn't necessarily that the player doesn't care about Cincinnati or any other main tour event, but they know that at the end of their career, the wider public (as opposed to tennis boffins) will judge them on how they have done at the Slams, and Jo must feel the sands of time running out and that her best chances to win a Slam are here and now, and I am sure she is desperate to do that and probably a lot less motivated to win the tour events in between.

Over the last few years other players who I have noticed seriously raise their game at the slams way beyond their ranking would include Petra Martic and Timea Babos - Martic was often outside the top 100 and then would make a Slam and reach the last 16 or 32 beating far better opponents along the way, and it was inescapable to feel that the big events and the big crowds made her into a completely different player to how she performed in the rest of the year. I feel Jo may be going the same way as she gets to the autumn of her career.

I think one thing that complicates how we see Jo's year is that dreadful loss to Strycova - I don't think anyone saw it coming, but if you take that loss out of the equation, then objectively she did really well at the French and Wimbledon, and has had a much better year than me or many others were expecting.

Would agree with the comment about the tour events. I had the feeling that when Jo lost to Ons Jabeur at Eastbourne that she was reserving her energies for Wimbledon. The loss in Paris didn't stop her reaching 2 Grand Slams last 8's in a row.The last British female to achieve this was Jo Durie with the Australian Open of late 1982 and French of 1983. Only 36 years. Even if Jo had beaten Strycova she would have had to face Serena. It might well have come to an end at that stage. Serena might have been looking for revenge for San Jose in 2018.

Andy Parker · Club Coach

ROSAMUND wrote:
Andy Parker wrote:
The only thing I would say is that at the Grand Slams this year, Jo has performed well. There is a line of argument that says that some players as they get older, only really are super-motivated by the Grand Slams and so their results in the tournaments in between are nowhere as good as to how they perform on the big stage. Jo could well fit this pattern, and if she suddenly performs really well at the US Open in a couple of weeks, then this theory holds a little more water. It isn't necessarily that the player doesn't care about Cincinnati or any other main tour event, but they know that at the end of their career, the wider public (as opposed to tennis boffins) will judge them on how they have done at the Slams, and Jo must feel the sands of time running out and that her best chances to win a Slam are here and now, and I am sure she is desperate to do that and probably a lot less motivated to win the tour events in between.

Over the last few years other players who I have noticed seriously raise their game at the slams way beyond their ranking would include Petra Martic and Timea Babos - Martic was often outside the top 100 and then would make a Slam and reach the last 16 or 32 beating far better opponents along the way, and it was inescapable to feel that the big events and the big crowds made her into a completely different player to how she performed in the rest of the year. I feel Jo may be going the same way as she gets to the autumn of her career.

I think one thing that complicates how we see Jo's year is that dreadful loss to Strycova - I don't think anyone saw it coming, but if you take that loss out of the equation, then objectively she did really well at the French and Wimbledon, and has had a much better year than me or many others were expecting.
Would agree with the comment about the tour events. I had the feeling that when Jo lost to Ons Jabeur at Eastbourne that she was reserving her energies for Wimbledon. The loss in Paris didn't stop her reaching 2 Grand Slams last 8's in a row.The last British female to achieve this was Jo Durie with the Australian Open of late 1982 and French of 1983. Only 36 years. Even if Jo had beaten Strycova she would have had to face Serena. It might well have come to an end at that stage. Serena might have been looking for revenge for San Jose in 2018.

I agree that Serena would have been a very tough opponent even if she had beaten Strycova, but Jo had done really well to already get to the Quarter Finals at Wimbledon, and although we all want to build her up Wimbledon chances, when she falls just short, it is important to praise her for how well she has done, rather than knock her when she loses (I mean that as a general point, and this comment is absolutely not directed at you or anyone else). Anyway I think it has been a relatively good season for Jo - her ranking is way up from the 37 that she was at in January and her Grand Slams performances have been excellent and bode well for the US and for next year.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Jo's task at Wimbledon might well have proved impossible in the semi finals as since Serena lost to Venus in the semi finals at Wimbledon 2000 she has won 11 Wimbledon semi finals with no losses .Also as a mandatory Jo is automatically entered in Beijing so might not find the answer to Wuhan for sometime.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Digressing slightly from jo. Why is Osaka out on court 10 today???

flamingowings · All-time great

ROSAMUND wrote:
As commented on there are plenty of good players in qualifying such as Strycova (Wimbledon 2019 semi finalist) and Swiatek has had a successful Toronto. Also qualifiers can be successful in tournaments e.g Bouzkova. Yet apart from being famous how does Maria Sharapova justify a wild card over Strycova?. Much the same can be said for the wild cards given to Venus Williams this year although her ranking is just high enough for Cincinnati.

Well Venus is providing the wins.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

There's been a couple of big hawk-eye moments today. Kontaveit serving for the match at 5-4, 30-15 in the decider, hits an apparent winner to seemingly earn 2 MPs, Barty challenges which looked to be just for the sake of it - out, 30-30, goes on to break and then win the match.

Then just before, Pliskova-Peterson hold serve until 5-5, Peterson looks to have got the elusive break, Pliskova challenges, but both actually sit down, hawk-eye says wide, Pliskova then holds, and inevitably goes on to break and take the set.

flamingowings · All-time great

Ace Ventura wrote:
There's been a couple of big hawk-eye moments today. Kontaveit serving for the match at 5-4, 30-15 in the decider, hits an apparent winner to seemingly earn 2 MPs, Barty challenges which looked to be just for the sake of it - out, 30-30, goes on to break and then win the match.

Then just before, Pliskova-Peterson hold serve until 5-5, Peterson looks to have got the elusive break, Pliskova challenges, but both actually sit down, hawk-eye says wide, Pliskova then holds, and inevitably goes on to break and take the set.

I believe Osaka's match is on a court with no hawk eye

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
There's been a couple of big hawk-eye moments today. Kontaveit serving for the match at 5-4, 30-15 in the decider, hits an apparent winner to seemingly earn 2 MPs, Barty challenges which looked to be just for the sake of it - out, 30-30, goes on to break and then win the match.

Then just before, Pliskova-Peterson hold serve until 5-5, Peterson looks to have got the elusive break, Pliskova challenges, but both actually sit down, hawk-eye says wide, Pliskova then holds, and inevitably goes on to break and take the set.
I believe Osaka's match is on a court with no hawk eye

It is. I assume it's been personally requested or otherwise it's a bit of a disgrace for a world #1 in a lead up event to the slam she is defending, and you could argue both opponents have more credentials than Pliskova (Osaka) and Petersen (Hsieh) respectively. Strange decision if not.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Jo has pulled out of the Bronx.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

PaulM wrote:
Jo has pulled out of the Bronx.

Any reason given?

Strongbow · All-time great

She doesn't need a reason - she has covered all her points till the end of the year. So it's all a free hit - well done biggrin

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

The old timers Venus and Sveta putting the young guns to the sword. Always liked Sveta she is playing well this week. Good to see.