flamingowings wrote:

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Oh for heaven's sake - yes our players and almost all players use social media but this is nothing to do with form or lack of. It is just ridiculous to suggest otherwise. It is part of the game, like interviews, sponsorship etc.

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Yes, if only this were the problem ...... life would be so easy.

 

Fraser\John Laurie

-- Edited by KK on Thursday 1st of August 2019 05:58:34 PM

HarryGem wrote:

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Ace Ventura wrote:

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Agreed re the ITFs. It's hard to hard to see her ever getting consistently back into the top 100.

SaiSai is overranked IMO - she's live ranked 58 on 920 points and 385 of those are from Chinese ITF / 125k events, where the 2nd highest win in those 3 tournaments was 139 - she can easily dip back home when she is off form, like she did at Anning in April and beat the 290, 241, 235, and 282 en route to a 125k final and a guaranteed 95 points. She's 5-18 at the Grand Slams and has never been past round 2 and, although she is stronger on hard than clay or grass, was coming into this on the back on 10 lost sets in a row, since she squeezed past 263 Hamrony Tan 7-6 7-6 in Strasbourg. Watson was just 6/5 pre match, which wouldn't happen against pretty much any other top 50 player, yet she was looking like a 6/1 outsider.

Worst part is, that's our current 2nd best player.

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 I was going to mention the last bit too but didn't want to appear too negative. If Jo retired tomorrow British women't tennis would be in the doldrums at best.

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 I was looking at singles wins on the WTA  tour  main draws in 2019. Jo has 29, Harriet 4, Katie B. 2 and Heather 1. That means that Jo has accounted for 80% of our singles  wins this year.  Harriet reaching the 3rd round of Wimbledon is the best of the rest.

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with ROSAMUND about the social media stuff as that is all part of the package these days and can be a good marketing tool, and pretty much every player does it as FW says, however, I do agree with her sentiment. Although Gabi didn't win these 2 matches, she pushed Rybakina to a deciding set tie break in Playford at the start of January, and then a few weeks later lost in 3 to Badosa, also in Australia. Fast-forward 7 months and Rybakina (who was only 5 places higher in Playford) has just won a WTA title and is now 61st in the rankings, and Badosa is now in the top 100 having made a WTA semi final last week and backed that up with a(n ongoing) WTA 125k semi final this week, while Gabi is outside the top 350, has lost 8 of her last 10 matches, 5 of which have been at W25 level (albeit a couple of retirement defeats).

On TF, someone updates the British rankings every month ( I suppose like on here, but weekly), and this was the situation in October 2018:

1.Johanna KONTA (38)/--/+5
2.Katie BOULTER (95)/+1/+13
3.Heather WATSON (99)/-1/-8
4.Gabriella TAYLOR (164)/+3/+9
5.Harriet DART (168)/--/--
6.Katie SWAN (169)/--/+1
7.Naomi BROADY (204)/-3/-39
8.Katy DUNNE (233)/--/-10
9.Maia LUMSDEN (368)/+1/+43
10.Francesca JONES (397)/NEW ENTRY

A few positives when we compare today's rankings, Maia and Fran have come in a fair bit (although Fran might head back out after the ranking changes), and obviously Konta getting back in at the top level has been absolutely brilliant as discussed, and while Naomi is probably all but done now at WTA level, the 3 main ones that stand out the other way for me are where Katie B, Katie S, and particularly Gabi were 9 months ago. Gabi had obviously stalled a bit from May-October 2018 and we knew that she had masses of points to defend from December-April to preserve that ranking, which didn't happen, but 9/10 months ago you had (on paper at least, re Gabi) 3 players, 19, 20 and 22 all in the top 170, looking like they may push on and hopefully establish themselves in or near the top 100. There really was a lot of legit excitement about Gabi around the Fed Cup in Japan time 16 months ago, but instead, 9 months later when you might have thought / hoped this would have happened, not one of those are in the current live ranked top 190, all almost a year older. There's obviously been unfortunate reasons for the drying up of progress, and if you can't play, you obviously can't pick up points, but Katie B may well take another year just to get back to where she was, but at 24 rather than just turned 22, and basically 2 years gone where she really could have been establishing herself in British sport and making a real name for herself on the tour. Katie S has had a good couple of weeks, is playing well (and long may it continue), and her ranking is slowly heading back in the right direction and she is still young, but again, still being a long way off her career high and taking time just to get to where she has been before, and older, seems like a missed chance for progress, and I'm not sure what to think about poor Gabi - at this stage, getting back anywhere near the top 150 at any point in her career would seem like a big accomplishment, a far cry from what might have been.

I think that's my biggest disappointment, yes we have extra numbers in the top 300 and a fair few young players, but those 3 (and Jodie this year - who has also had an unfortunate set back) looked like they could be the ones to get inside the top 100 and stay there, and have a successful career, like say Heather, and be the '3 or 4' to get to that next level that many have discussed, and what we would all like.

Katie B could hit the ground running and get herself back to where she was earlier than expected, and Rybakina (same age as Swan) has only really properly pushed on in the past 5 or 6 months, so you never know what's around the corner, but it does generally feel like a couple of years lost for these players, and the window of opportunity for forging a prosperous career is narrowing the longer you are outside that elusive top 100.

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Friday 2nd of August 2019 05:38:33 PM

My sixpence worth here is that I don't believe in the kiss of death, or jinxes, or any of that.

But I do agree that, Jo aside, things on an absolute basis don't look great.

However, I firmly believe that Harriet, Katie B, Katie S, Jodie etc. are a very good cohort, with all of them being well able to be top-100 (and quite a few others in line to be not far off too)

However, I completely agree with what one of the GB female commentators said at Wimbly time (can't remember who it was now) when she said (approx):

"We've got a very decent group of promising players coming through. Which is exciting. And would lead you to believe that the LTA policies are bearing fruit and British tennis is moving in the right direction and it's all falling into place. But that's not the case. It's just a coincidence that there's this group - there's no group in front of them, and no group really behind them. SO enjoy them while you can, it's not a sign of anything more"

Coup Droit wrote:

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My sixpence worth here is that I don't believe in the kiss of death, or jinxes, or any of that.

But I do agree that, Jo aside, things on an absolute basis don't look great.

However, I firmly believe that Harriet, Katie B, Katie S, Jodie etc. are a very good cohort, with all of them being well able to be top-100 (and quite a few others in line to be not far off too)

However, I completely agree with what one of the GB female commentators said at Wimbly time (can't remember who it was now) when she said (approx):

"We've got a very decent group of promising players coming through. Which is exciting. And would lead you to believe that the LTA policies are bearing fruit and British tennis is moving in the right direction and it's all falling into place. But that's not the case. It's just a coincidence that there's this group - there's no group in front of them, and no group really behind them. SO enjoy them while you can, it's not a sign of anything more"

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Indeed, indeed to you and that female  commentator.

Not much evidence at all that it is to do with any changing LTA policies, but to me we clearly DO still have a very decent group of promising players, as you said a very good cohort, quite a number individually looking capable of top 100.

So while last year probably went much better in some ways than many of us expected and this year has been relatively disappointing the core group of younger players is still there if a year older, slightly enlarged indeed. 

I really do feel though that we are at times seeing too much hand-wringing about some still relatively short term year to year fall backs when it has been much worse and ( hopefully not ) very well may be again ( and the whys and wherefores of that will no doubt continue to be also discussed at other times ). 

Maybe this crop will be more appreciated some years down the line with folk say wishing for much more backup to the likes of Emma and Matilda. Hope of course too that some of the current crop really push on again.

For re this current crop, as that lady commentator said, "enjoy them while you can."