telstar wrote:

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Helen40 wrote:

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An awful match, over in less than an hour due to UEs. Terrible for tennis.

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 I think the opposite. Great to see a delightful young lady win by skill and speed over an opponent who offers nothing but brute strength!

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Serena has spent 20 years at the top level somehow managing to hit a furry yellow ball between some white lines much better than just about anyone else.

But hey ho. 

indiana wrote:

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telstar wrote:

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Helen40 wrote:

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An awful match, over in less than an hour due to UEs. Terrible for tennis.

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 I think the opposite. Great to see a delightful young lady win by skill and speed over an opponent who offers nothing but brute strength!

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Serena has spent 20 years at the top level somehow managing to hit a furry yellow ball between some white lines much better than just about anyone else.

But hey ho. 

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 Williams has spent 20 years at the top level somehow managing to hit a furry yellow ball between some white lines much harder than just about anyone else.

Coup Droit wrote:

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Helen40 wrote:

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An awful match, over in less than an hour due to UEs. Terrible for tennis.

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 I didn't think so. I thought Simon played some amazing tennis, just motored and motored out there, not only reaching balls you never thought she'd get to, but putting real vim on the ball when she did get there.

Most of Serena's errors were forced errors, in my view, forced by pressure, and the knowledge that she had to absolutely hit the lines or Halep would be there. 

It certainly wasn't a classic. But it was high level tennis. 

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 I agree that Simona played well, best I've ever seen her play, however I do think that Serena UEs were just that, maybe more later on because of Simona's level of play, but Serena didn't ever get going or serve well.

For me Serena lost it in her head (exactly what her coach had said in the prematch interview - that these matches are won and lost in the head). I hope that she does manage to get no 24. She's good enough physically again, but who knows mentally.

For me it was a truly a great performance by Simona - the best I have ever seen her play - in fact for me it was so good that I rewound the record on the TV and watched it again straight away, as I was so shocked at how quickly the match came and went.

I thought Serena was so gracious and generous in defeat - post match interviews following finals must be the most difficult thing ever, and she recognised that Simona had played unbelievably well - I remember Sam Smith saying 'how long can she keep this up?' - I was thinking the same thing and waiting for the nerves to kick in or her lose her A game.

Simona is really starting to look like a very complete grass court player - she uses the angles so well and is so quick around the court - her game was almost faultless today, and at the points I thought that she might choke, she seemed to go into overdrive.

Serena has to be more than just raw power that others are saying - she plays intelligently, has great strokes and often finishes points with little drop shots, having blasted opponents into really difficult areas of the court to make returns - her record is second only to Margaret Court and she will rightly be regarded as one of the greatest two players of all time - whether you regard her as best depends on persepective I think - Margaret Court won over 90% of the matches she competed in and was almost totally dominant when at her peak, whereas no other player has come that close to total domination in the women's game - on the other hand if you could somehow time warp both players to their peak and having them face each other on court, then is no question whatsoever that Serena would have beaten Court, if they were both at their best, and that is because tennis is always improving and always moves on.

Anyway I feel we should celebrate Serena as a brilliant and truly great sportswoman, an icon and role model for women and black women especially. What she has done, despite not having the benefit of a privileged background is incredible, and for me, the Williams sisters and Sharapova took tennis to a new level, as Navratilova and Court did in the eras before her.

Coup Droit wrote:

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telstar wrote:

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Helen40 wrote:

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An awful match, over in less than an hour due to UEs. Terrible for tennis.

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 I think the opposite. Great to see a delightful young lady win by skill and speed over an opponent who offers nothing but brute strength!

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You're bordering on discrimination, in my view, here.

The fact that Halep runs everything down, and gets everything back, is classed as 'skill' (although she barely ever came to the net, or hit a volley, say)

But the fact that Williams hits hard is called skill-less and just brute strength, (even though she came to the net a lot more often, just as an example, and was clearly trying it as a tactic).

And Simona is a 'delightful young lady'??? Even after her open support of Nastase and his blatant and nasty racism? 

(Now, I'm not saying Serena is a delightful young lady either, I don't support her, after her US Open performance, as mentioned before). But.....

NB Don't get me wrong, I thought Simona played superbly, really rocked Serena from the get-go (which is why I think the faults were more forced, than unforced although I take Helen's point), and I was really pleased she won - she deserved to. But I think to label Serena as being just force and nothing else, is to be taken in by the grunt and the physique, in a way that is not correct (or attractive). The technique on her serve, for instance, is so pure and correct, it's a joy. She doesn't 'muscle' it, she serves it, beautifully. That's skill. 

 

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i don't see telstar's comments as discriminatory CD. Simona won today because she hunted everything down, ran Serena round the court, and made no errors. Even the US commentators, Austin and McEnroe commented how Serena is used to being able to keep points short and doesn't really have an answer when forced into longer rallies. Serena didn't win a single rally for the last several games I watched. She was also tiring in the rallies, whilst Simona was much fitter. But then as also noted, Serena is still recovering from a knee injury and has enjoyed this tournament because she's been able to play it pain free for the first time in ages. But she obviously has more fitness work to do, and will need to play one or two more tournaments en route to the US Open. But let's face it, Serena has never been a scurrier and never will be. If she can't dominate points it's tough for her. Today she did dominate points, but somehow Simona just kept returning until eventually Serena made another UE.

As Serena and Mouratoglou said before the match, it's never clear which Serena will turn up... For some reason (again) she was very nervous and tight right from the beginning, and seemed shell shocked for much of it. Simona was in a zone, Serena was off in space. Serena is still a brilliant player, and with Venus they have done so much for women's tennis, including but certainly not just black women's tennis - Andy himself has been fulsome often enough - but Serena has won all her big tournaments a certain way, and that way is hustling her opponents off the ball, and not giving them enough time and space to rally with her.