Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Paris - Clay

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Paris - Clay

JonH · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
Can't help but feel that Katie would have been a lot better advised not to tweet anything. She's getting an enormous amount of stick now. As said, I don't really have a problem, and neither do many others, as per brendan above. But it seems to be taking the Mick to pretend otherwise. Should have just kept schtummm.

Katie Boulter

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So disappointed to have to pull out of the French Open. I was still hoping to have a chance of competing but doctors have advised me not to take a risk with my back. Cant wait to get back on court soon.

4:11 AM - 24 May 2019

And apparently pictures of her doing push ups at the Ntc where also posted. Bad pr advise imo.

SuperT · Futures qualifying

JonH wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Can't help but feel that Katie would have been a lot better advised not to tweet anything. She's getting an enormous amount of stick now. As said, I don't really have a problem, and neither do many others, as per brendan above. But it seems to be taking the Mick to pretend otherwise. Should have just kept schtummm.

Katie Boulter

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So disappointed to have to pull out of the French Open. I was still hoping to have a chance of competing but doctors have advised me not to take a risk with my back. Cant wait to get back on court soon.

4:11 AM - 24 May 2019
And apparently pictures of her doing push ups at the Ntc where also posted. Bad pr advise imo.

Even so I'm disappointed to see Simon Briggs giving her a hard time. After all she hasn't actually done anything wrong.

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

I wasn't going to, but now I will. The BBC has pushed me over the edge. A dedicated story about Katie B, with monetary amount in the provocative headline. And a very naughty paragraph referring to the same non-story, in the Beeb's "article" about Katie Swan's defeat today. The latter in my opinion verges on defamation of character. Sadly the BBC have form for this kind of thing, and since they never seem to learn, one simply has to believe it's deliberate. And let's face it the BBC aren't averse to splashing the cash on their big celebrity employees, are they, so this is all a bit double standards isn't it?

I've seen a couple of posts on here today talking about players morals, and perhaps then those same posters come on here a few hours later and say "actually maybe I was a bit OTT". It's better not to question someone's morals in the first place, is my thinking.

Katie Boulter performed heroically for GB's Fed Cup team and it's tennis fans, and in doing so aggravated an injury which over the last months has significantly impacted on her as a tennis professional. She put her country, and the sport of tennis, first, ... and her health and earning potential (this year) second.

Katie doesn't deserve this type of self-righteous scrutiny by people outside of the professional sport. It's a paid professional sport, not an idealistic amateur one. The rules are there for all to see and abide by. If people want to get all uppity about money, instead of looking at the bottom end of the scale, perhaps they should focus on those in both the men and womens games that have taken closer to [multi-multi] millions out of the game, and are now able to prolong their prolific earning careers by falling back on their wealth, whilst playing only a fraction of the tournaments and honing their skills and musculature.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

As said, I have no issue with what Katie did (although I think her PR was mishandled).

But I don't think the press have to treat it with kid gloves, and not mention it, just because she played so well in the Fed Cup, or whatever (although, again, they should report a balanced view and not just all negative stuff).

And I certainly don't think people on here, or anywhere, else should be scared to put their opinions forward (as long as they're not downright rude, which they aren't). It's a valid opinion that the current system has a loophole, and Katie took advantage of it, and then gave a story which rather looks as though she was trying to cover it up. It's supported by many sensible tennis reporters. Again, personally, I have more issue with Kyle. But that's just my opinion.

Who's to say that Katie doesn't 'deserve' it? It's her action, her choice. She certainly doesn't deserve to have people being rude or vitriolic. But everyone can voice an opinion. And you could say that the more people we have pointing out 'morality' issues, the better - after all, it's all very well to say, it's just the rule, why shouldn't she, but as we know, that's not always a convincing argument....

Barefoot · Lower Club Player

Buzarnescu did this last year at the US open I believe and got a lot of stick - mainly as she left the withdrawal incredibly late and kept posting about her prep on social when many people had witnessed the injury happening, and knew there was no way she would play. That wasnt smart. Katie doesnt seem to have actually referenced her injury herself until today.

Giorgi seems to have flown under the radar this time - she timed the withdrawal just before the draw but has done the same thing. I dont have a huge problem with doing it - the prize money is earned through a full year of work after all - but this withdrawal window should be from just before the quali draws are made to give everyone who can, the chance to play.

flamingowings · All-time great

Andy did it at the USO as well...

ROSAMUND · Futures level

I did have a look at Lottner's record apart from her recent win on clay over Bencic. She was actually runner-up to Bencic in the 2013 French juniors. She qualified for Wimbledon in 2018 and in final qualifying beat Andreescu in the days before Andreescu hit the heights. She also had a grass court win over Mertens in 2018. Regarding players Jo does not have to play you might be glad it is not Kucova as she beat Jo in the Q/F in Canada in 2016 when Jo was on the way to the top 10. Some were well known such as Nara, Lepchenko and Babos. But some were unknown quantities such as Bolsova, Gatto-Monticone,, Samsonova and Paolini.

Andy Parker · Strong Club Player

Regarding the post from Foobarbaz, which quotes me reflecting on my earlier posts in response to what others are saying, I feel I should reply and defend myself - normally I don't bother with things like this, but sometimes when singled out for criticism, it feels too personal not to.

I made three posts. My original post came from the shock of looking at the French Open draw, which had happened one hour earlier, and then on discovering that Katie B was in the draw, even though it had been announced a couple of weeks ago that she was injured. I then came straight on to this forum to try and make sense of what had happened.

It is also worth saying, that in the recent wildcard discussions before this post, I also used this forum to wish her well make a speedy recovery from her back injury, and to say that I hoped she would be fit for Wimbledon and that as our best British young prospect, we would then miss her very much if she would not be there. Scroll back to the Wimbledon wildcards discussion and several posts I made on that, if you need to check - I'm not a technical person and I haven't learned how to cut and paste comments I am afraid. Anyway this post was made because I was baffled as to how Katie was in the draw when it had been announced already that she had been ruled out of the French Open.

My second post then reflected what others were saying - that by pulling out after the draw, she would be entitled to £20k if she pulled out after the draw was made and before the tournament started. My shock was not really about Katie's morals and more that there is a system in place that lets players do this and thereby denies those just outside the cut off, the right to reach the automatic draw and to have to go through qualifying, because others who are injured have delayed their withdrawals. Although aware of the rule changes regarding withdrawals, I had not previously appreciated that there is now an economic incentive to make a late withdrawal and then pick up half the first round losers prize money.

My third post reflected that as I listened to the forum discussion and took on board what people were saying - that £20k is a lot of money for a player to turn down, that Katie is well within the rules to do this and that as a professional player she has to make money. I realised that this was little about Katie and much more about an imperfect system for withdrawals and I realised that criticising players for operating rationally in an imperfect system is not really fair.

I think though that there is clearly a rule change needed to stop this happening. If a player knows that they cannot play, they should have up until the qualifying draw is made, to withdraw and to then receive the amount due to them that they would get for withdrawing after that. Last minute withdrawals would still happen, but at least there would be no economic incentive to do so.

I remain a big Katie fan and wish her all the best for Wimbledon and the US Open, and am sure that once fit, she will speed back up the rankings.

I also agree with Coup Droit, that it is a shame if people start to say on here that you shouldn't be allowed to put your own opinions - if someone disagrees with you fine, but it can be like a lynch mob mentality sometimes, when people get criticised for making honest comments and told they shouldn't be posting them in the first place or you are made out to be some kind of moralising self righteous idiot, which certainly isn't how I see myself, and I think the normal idea of a forum is to discuss things, gauge others opinions and come out better informed than you started. I frequently change opinions after sharing posts with others, and the tennis knowledge of some of the people here is ridiculously informed and meticulously researched.

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

Andy Parker, I didn't single you out for criticism, I didn't mention your name. The words you write are not mine. Do you not think the lynch mob (your words) has already been out, and resulted in some nasty headlines that will follow one of our brightest tennis hopes around for years to come, when your hurt feelings and this thread will long be forgotten. I am all for free speech, I commented on two occurrences where I saw players morals being questioned, by folk who probably do not know more about the player than what they have read in the media. You and Coup Droit both felt the need to reply to my post, though I was not vindictive to anyone. How would any of us like having the details of how our salary is decided, widely discussed in public? Why should someones choice of where to live be someone else's problem? I put it to you that 20k is not a lot, in fact it is small beer, if you consider the point I made in the last paragraph in my post, and if you consider the expenditure that these players have to make just to survive at tour level tennis. This really isn't you exposing a serious loophole in the organisation of professional tennis today, it's just a minor tale of tittle-tattle.

Andy Parker · Strong Club Player

Enough said - time to move on.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Saturday 25th of May 2019 01:01:45 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

I am sure that Katie wishes she hadn't weeks ago been fairly clear that she was pretty certainly out for at least the whole clay season. So much better if that non participation expectation had not been so clearly set. And more sympathy then for her late withdrawal.

Now maybe things changed and her back recovery was ahead of schedule and/or that was a boo boo in her PR. I make no judgements, but because of that earlier clear self proclamation on her chances, like Buzarnescu following her injury, many people are not buying that she was ever in with a chance of playing, and subsequent tweets and pictures are seen as taking the mick. Sometimes the less said the better.

However it is the system that needs tweaked and she certainly doesn't deserve such vitriol, quite apart from the fact that none of these in judgement probably know for sure that she was not ultimately closer to playing than had been suspected, unlikely as that may be thought.

Let her move on and Grand Slam Board please change the rules to allow earlier injury withdrawals while still receiving 50% R1 prizemoney so that we can avoid further such scenarios.

Nix · Futures qualifying

I agree with the point that the press, and really not just the BBC, Sky and print journalism are also guilty of it, just focus on the controversial without context. We all know Katie's history: how she has already missed an important year of earning and development due to illness/injury. How tennis is an incredibly expensive career to pursue. How she exacerbated her injury due to playing for her country. She's friendly with Laura Robson so she knows how fragile a tennis career can be. What annoys me is she'll probably be back to being the golden girl with model girl looks if she manages to get fit for the grass season , which is equally annoying to me because it skips over all of her effort, talents, skills and application.

It's all relevant to why she's made the decisions she made. Coaches, travelling etc are all vital to success but also v expensive and she's not a Serena, Kerber or even Konta where she could maybe afford to pass up on £20k within the rules. But until people stop lapping up the sensational and critical, they'll continue publishing it.

Michael D · All-time great

Yes, I looked it up. On the WTA site, it's showing Katie's earnings this year as being $97,000 so far. She has a team to support, and I imagine her expenses take up at least half of that so far. That begins to leave not too much balance when you take into account the rest of her living costs, and plus there's tax too. I can imagine that 20k was relatively important to her income so far this year, and considering her unremunerated Fed Cup exploits, which then left her injured, that's totally justified. As Indy says, the problem here is the system, not Katie, even if her PR is not the greatest.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes. But Katie was one of the 13 PSP players last year who shared in the LTA's funding of £700k, plus access to sports science team, etc. etc. (See 2018 report)
Not saying she doesn't need the money but....