Weeks 12 & 13 - WTA Premier Mandatory - Miami, USA - Hard

indiana · Tennis legend

Weeks 12 & 13 - WTA Premier Mandatory - Miami, USA - Hard

JonH · All-time great

indiana wrote:
Hmm, 210 race top 10 average for a period of 3 months or so vs 205 rankings average.

I think I will manage to sleep tonight
And neither of these race or rankings averages are exactly a million miles from the 190.1 figure of June last year which I believe is our best rankings top 10 average this century ( indeed I think AliBB had it a fair bit further back than that ).
This is a historically GOOD period, more particularly looking at more than just 3 months although even this last 3 months or so just isn't that bad ( approx 210 race average I read ). And pretty interesting I'd say, especially with the age profile. Some we would like a bit higher, some a lot higher, was always thus but often from much lower base levels.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 11:58:02 PM

being frank I was just playing devils advocate but...dont you think a country like GB with all the money we in the game have should generally higher rankings, regardless of whether that has historically been the case? The thing i worry about with the British girls is that we seem to struggle mentally in the tight spots - over the years it has always been the case, I think. And why is that? Other countries dont seem to. I might have a bad memory and cant quote examples but I think we generally underperform and that is a tad disappointing !

indiana · Tennis legend

Katie B concerning period ? - no.

Our top 10 overall concerning period ? - not really.

Whatever, our women should though overall be achieving more past and present and they have a tendency to mentally struggle? - different ( although touches on past discussions ) and I will leave hanging at this time of night. Though maybe others have thoughts.

flamingowings · All-time great

I would say that our women are no worse than any other - France for example. And France also have some very flaky men! I think we just don't have a superstar like Andy or a player like Kvitova. We have great players but not not slam winners (in singles) although maybe Emma Rad will turn out to be one in time.

Nix · Futures level

indiana wrote:
Katie B concerning period ? - no.

Our top 10 overall concerning period ? - not really.

Whatever, our women should though overall be achieving more past and present and they have a tendency to mentally struggle? - different ( although touches on past discussions ) and I will leave hanging at this time of night. Though maybe others have thoughts.

I think the mental part of the game is massively important. You can just see how matches change when the momentum swings from one player to the other.

I just wonder whether enough emphasis is put on the mental side of the game for our younger players. For our women, I've noticed that the serve can be very shaky under pressure and it's really affected players like Tara and Laura who serve so many double faults in some matches that it affects their entire game and almost hands matches to their opponents. There are certain shots, like the overhead shots and the serve that I think are disproportionately affected by what is happening to you mentally, as you have time to think about it going wrong.

This isn't saying that our women are more mentally fragile than other countries' women, just wondering whether other countries' coaches focus on the mental side of the game more. Interesting how Andy spent a lot of his formative years abroad training in Spain and Jo improved her ranking significantly when she started training abroad and with a psychological coach as well as a playing coach.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

It's an interesting point, Nix.

Just in terms of the French, no, I don't think more emphasis is placed on mental preparation and training.

BUT I do strongly believe that growing up playing a lot of team tennis is hugely beneficial to mental training.

When you play team tennis, you cannot 'throw' a match, or give up because you're annoyed, or simply accept that today's not your day, or whatever.

Not only because of pride and being part of the team, but you've got the team captain and the whole team screaming at you and bombarding you at every changeover.

And you learn that, despite it all looking shot away, today CAN be your day, and you CAN get over the line. And that you will NOT serve another blinkin' double fault (unless your captain tells you 'go for it' because your serve is your weapon).

Now, as with all, some players are better at this than others. And France certainly has its fair share of temperamental flakes. Although some of that is just grandstanding - as a sweeping generalisation, there's a French trait of not wanting to be seen to be trying, it's not cool. But those players are often perfectly capable of grinding it out (as can be seen when they still play league). So the essentials of mental toughness are often there.

This is something that has to be learnt young, though, I feel. The French top players growing up spent most Sundays playing team tennis (in juniors, and in adults), from the age of 10 upwards (with playing adults starting at about age 12). And not only does it help you learn as you play but you also have to watch all the other players and so learn the dynamics of a match from their matches. If you only play individual matches you often don't want many other matches, start to finish. It's a really excellent learning vehicle.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Less than 1000 ranking points separate the top 8 at present, further adding evidence to the fact that there is no dominant player at the moment. 4 different Grand Slam winners same as last year is my prediction.

indiana · Tennis legend

Interesting re the mental side and flakiness and very difficult to truly assess overall between nations.

I would think most people retain more mental note of when our players say lose tight matches and/or fling in loads of DFs than when other players do so and the Brit emerges victorious.

Very interesting though CD's thoughts on the effects of team tennis.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

All qualifying matches are complete. Kanepi is the one I'd like Jo to avoid most and maybe Muchova as well - she's only really lost to the better players recently and when fit can be a match for most.

The 3 who beat Dart, Boulter and Watson all lost, Brengle with only 3 games against Jakupovic.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

It's Pegula.

Nix · Futures level

Thanks for writing this about team tennis CD. Interesting stuff and I wonder if it does make a difference. Also about trying too hard not being cool in France. In UK IME it's about not being too clever (swotty etc). I knew someone who taught academy footballers. She said that one of them told her he would pretend he didn't understand things because he would get stick from his friends if he was too good at academic stuff!

I take your point Indy about us noticing our own players when they have fragile areas. I just really think it's an easier area to address than say, changing your service action. So it's worth investment if it's not happening at the moment. I'd love to see some info about how the LTA go about supporting the mental side of the game, if indeed it actually happens.

indiana · Tennis legend

Certainly I can't see any reason that the mental side would not be an area being supported and advised on in some ways.

Plenty people around the LTA who have been there quite apart from professionals in such areas.

So yes, some info would be interesting.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

My guess would be that the LTA probably pays a fortune for ultra-trendy psychology coaches, and what have you. It's quite trendy, looks good, modern, etc. etc. etc.

My general gut feel from the bits and pieces of LTA/top club training that I've seen around is that there's far too much talking and not enough playing (although the talking is generally about technique. strategy etc., not mentality).

But I just mean that they seem to love to talk. And psychology would be right up their street.

Of course, one of the reasons they seem to love to talk is that the coaches aren't that fit and don't play that well - OK, big sweeping generalisation, and maybe a bit unfair but it's not completely wrong and certainly nowhere near as wrong as it should be.

Peter too · Tennis legend

R1: KONTA, Johanna (GBR) 38 v PEGULA, Jessica (USA) Q 90 =CH

Michael D · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
My guess would be that the LTA probably pays a fortune for ultra-trendy psychology coaches, and what have you. It's quite trendy, looks good, modern, etc. etc. etc.

My general gut feel from the bits and pieces of LTA/top club training that I've seen around is that there's far too much talking and not enough playing (although the talking is generally about technique. strategy etc., not mentality).

But I just mean that they seem to love to talk. And psychology would be right up their street.

Of course, one of the reasons they seem to love to talk is that the coaches aren't that fit and don't play that well - OK, big sweeping generalisation, and maybe a bit unfair but it's not completely wrong and certainly nowhere near as wrong as it should be.

Compared with French coaches who are part of the team tennis set up and regularly play competitive tennis, you're dead right that English coaches are not as fit and don't play so much CD...