Week 9 - WTA International ($250K) Acapulco, Mexico Hard

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Week 9 - WTA International ($250K) Acapulco, Mexico Hard

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

A little bit of resistance and she did get a break from nowhere, but didn't quite manage to drag it past the hour. Lost 0-6 3-6 in 59 mins.

indiana · Tennis legend

Katie! Not good.

The game is there but some days it just doesn't really turn up.

flamingowings · All-time great

Good win for McHale and her previously described basic game which was enough, it would appear, to bamboozle Katie. All a learning curve - onwards to the next.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

It's just disappointing. McHale has obviously competed at a much higher level than Katie over the years and has been a regular on the WTA tour - the Aussie Open last month was actually the first grand slam main draw she has not made since USO 2010, so that in itself deserves respect. However, for the last couple of years she's been clinging on to her top 100 place and finally fell out last September and is now at 145 - I guess the 'basic' was relative to the WTA tour and a very modest 2 years where I have followed the women's tour much more closely and in her last 19 slam appearances she has been out in R1 12 times (the other 7 in R2). The constant 'McFail' references elsewhere will have no doubt also consciously or subconsciously contributed to my opinion.

But then again, even if McHale has had far better days at 145, in her 2 or 3 years competing, Katie has only beaten 4 players ranked inside the top 160 - Begu, Davies, Hibino and Rodionova and given her nationality and other links (Murray), obviously benefits much more than a lot of similarly aged / currently ranked players who won't get those free shots at 70 points against players not comfortable on grass. While that Begu win was superb, without it, she would be currently outside the top 220 and wouldn't have had the opportunities that came with it - e.g. being a seed in that very weak Chinese 60k tournament in November where she beat the 466 and 355 en route to the semi final and 29 extra points.

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=KatieSwan

Katie has obviously had some injury and illness issues since the USO and a few retirements, but if you quickly look at her results in the last 6 months since losing to Watson in the FQR, she has beaten 966, 560, 645, 466, 282, 355, 193, 386, 352 and 451 and has got some very generous points for doing so. Her losses have come against 116, 162, 215, 83, 182, 106 (Andreescu was a loss after a mid-match retirement), 81 and 145. So basically she has lost 8 of her last 9 matches against those in the top 260 / grand slam quallies positions.

McHale was the 4/9 favourite, so it's not a shock at all in that sense that she went though, and while I thought Katie did have a decent chance given McHale's recent results, it's just the manner that is most disappointing - 3 games and less than an hour. In conclusion and writing all that out, I do personally believe Katie is a bit over-ranked at 175 and is unfortunately a lot further away from competing at the WTA quals than I thought / hoped.

Edit - link wasn't working

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Sunday 24th of February 2019 11:34:39 AM

flamingowings · All-time great

Even if Katie had chosen Indian Wells, judging by the main draw, that is a competitive field also but maybe more fitting of her level at this time. Katie is quite highly ranked for someone who is not long out of juniors and who unfortunately seems prone to injury (at least at this stage).
I am aware that this board had it's focus on GB players - understandably - but I feel that sometimes it is a bit inflated and not very realistic in regards to how well the opponent can play.

Edit - my own personal opinion and a general one of the board not directed at any one in particular.

-- Edited by flamingowings on Sunday 24th of February 2019 12:28:38 PM

Michael D · All-time great

flamingowings wrote:
Even if Katie had chosen Indian Wells, judging by the main draw, that is a competitive field also but maybe more fitting of her level at this time. Katie is quite highly ranked for someone who is not long out of juniors and who unfortunately seems prone to injury (at least at this stage).
I am aware that this board had it's focus on GB players - understandably - but I feel that sometimes it is a bit inflated and not very realistic in regards to how well the opponent can play.

Edit - my own personal opinion and a general one of the board not directed at any one in particular.

-- Edited by flamingowings on Sunday 24th of February 2019 12:28:38 PM

I think that's a fair comment FW, and there is a tendency to overestimating ours and underestimating others. This is a learning for Katie S, she hasn't had much of a season yet, and personally I certainly did not expect her to win this, even if I thought she might have made a better fist of things.

indiana · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Katie! Not good.

The game is there but some days it just doesn't really turn up.

Ah, it was Katie S rather than Katie B. Duh !

Sorry, much more understanding of that result. Indeed not unexpected and Katie S very much on that learning curve

Apologies if my misguided somewhat peculiar reaction caused some of what followed.

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

Hopefully the prep in getting ready for Acapulcao qualies will help her play better in the Mexico 25k, and she'll have a good run of matches. Not easy this tennis lark, especially when the first set isn't going well against a higher ranked, and more experienced opponent.

-- Edited by foobarbaz on Sunday 24th of February 2019 02:00:33 PM

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
Even if Katie had chosen Indian Wells, judging by the main draw, that is a competitive field also but maybe more fitting of her level at this time. Katie is quite highly ranked for someone who is not long out of juniors and who unfortunately seems prone to injury (at least at this stage).
I am aware that this board had it's focus on GB players - understandably - but I feel that sometimes it is a bit inflated and not very realistic in regards to how well the opponent can play.

Edit - my own personal opinion and a general one of the board not directed at any one in particular.

-- Edited by flamingowings on Sunday 24th of February 2019 12:28:38 PM

I do largely agree and I usually take rankings with a pinch of salt of those players from 'big' tennis nations like USA, China, Australia, GB and France as well as other nations who put on a lot of ITF events like Japan, unless they have proven themselves at a higher level and had a number of significant wins. Not automatically and nations like the States and France do generally have a lot more depth, but the better players from some of the other nations mentioned will get a lot more opportunities than most of their tour counterparts due to more WCs, more chance of playing at home with the added convenience and crowd support that brings, and funding allowing them to plan and target trips overseas. I'm also aware that opportunities will vary between people from these nations and there will be some who will be more favoured than others within federations.

Katie S does have a decent reputation on here, Twitter and the general British tennis community and many have high hopes for her, mainly because she has been as good a female junior that we have had for a while and making that jr slam final, but she hasn't really proven much yet in the pro ranks, because despite that relatively high ranking, she's not had many noteworthy pro wins as I mentioned on that previous long post. Who knows what Katie's ceiling is, but she is 20 next month, so not a baby, and there's so many talented 17/18/19/20 year old's already established in the top 100 or just outside. Then there's also those less talked about (than your obvious names) who are ranked in and around Katie who all seem to have more higher ranked wins (Rybakina, Samsonova, Zavatska etc), and I still think this version of McHale, who has lost to Kayla Day, Whitney Osuigwe and Destanee Aiava since late October, all in straight sets, and those 3 are younger and lower ranked than Katie, was a good opportunity to compete against, and maybe even get another rare win higher than her current ranking - to lose in the manner she did was pretty disappointing and does ask questions.

As for the Indian Wells 125k event, there are 41 of the 48 entrants who are currently ranked higher than McHale - Hon is 41st on the list and she is ranked 143, so if Katie had got in either via a WC or Q (if high enough to enter), the chances are she would have probably struggled more.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Re Christina McHale,back at 2016 Wimbledon she actually provided Serena Williams with her sternest test on the way to Serena winning the title. She also provided Johanna Konta(2012) and Katie Boulter (2017) with their first opponents in the ladies singles at Wimbledon. As for Katie Swan there is always the Murray influence which is probably the reason why she played 2nd singles at the 2016 Fed Cup when Jo withdrew. You can always look to Jo as far as late tennis development is concerned because she didn't make any impact on the world scene until she was 24. Although there are youngsters developing, the likes of Cici Bellis(virtually the same age as Katie ) has also got a career blighted by injury. Slightly older is the case of Ana Konjuh.

flamingowings · All-time great

ROSAMUND wrote:
Re Christina McHale,back at 2016 Wimbledon she actually provided Serena Williams with her sternest test on the way to Serena winning the title. She also provided Johanna Konta(2012) and Katie Boulter (2017) with their first opponents in the ladies singles at Wimbledon. As for Katie Swan there is always the Murray influence which is probably the reason why she played 2nd singles at the 2016 Fed Cup when Jo withdrew. You can always look to Jo as far as late tennis development is concerned because she didn't make any impact on the world scene until she was 24. Although there are youngsters developing, the likes of Cici Bellis(virtually the same age as Katie ) has also got a career blighted by injury. Slightly older is the case of Ana Konjuh.

Belinda Bencic is only 21 and who won Dubai, is another player who had injuries from 19.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Re Christina McHale,back at 2016 Wimbledon she actually provided Serena Williams with her sternest test on the way to Serena winning the title. She also provided Johanna Konta(2012) and Katie Boulter (2017) with their first opponents in the ladies singles at Wimbledon. As for Katie Swan there is always the Murray influence which is probably the reason why she played 2nd singles at the 2016 Fed Cup when Jo withdrew. You can always look to Jo as far as late tennis development is concerned because she didn't make any impact on the world scene until she was 24. Although there are youngsters developing, the likes of Cici Bellis(virtually the same age as Katie ) has also got a career blighted by injury. Slightly older is the case of Ana Konjuh.

I remember that Boulter match well, obviously grass as a bit of a neutraliser and a much bigger stage, but that was 60 vs 238 and went into a decider, this was 145 vs 173 and an under 1 hour beatdown.

Hopefully both Bellis and Konjuh can get back to where they once were because they were great additions to the main tour. Bellis having been in the top 35 and just over a year ago reached the Qatar P5 QF, the rotated equivalent of the event Bencic has just won and Konjuh has been top 20 and seeded in slams.

Speaking of 19 year old's, there's another currently in a decent position to take her 2nd WTA title, in Budapest.

Edit - maybe spoke too soon about that. Looks like I've properly jinxed Vondrousova. Was 6-1 5-4* when I posted that, now 6-1 5-7 0-3*

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Sunday 24th of February 2019 05:49:58 PM

flamingowings · All-time great

Jo is playing with Laura Siegemund in the doubles and face Daria Gavrilova and Astra Sharma (Aus/Aus)

flamingowings · All-time great

Ace Ventura wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Re Christina McHale,back at 2016 Wimbledon she actually provided Serena Williams with her sternest test on the way to Serena winning the title. She also provided Johanna Konta(2012) and Katie Boulter (2017) with their first opponents in the ladies singles at Wimbledon. As for Katie Swan there is always the Murray influence which is probably the reason why she played 2nd singles at the 2016 Fed Cup when Jo withdrew. You can always look to Jo as far as late tennis development is concerned because she didn't make any impact on the world scene until she was 24. Although there are youngsters developing, the likes of Cici Bellis(virtually the same age as Katie ) has also got a career blighted by injury. Slightly older is the case of Ana Konjuh.
I remember that Boulter match well, obviously grass as a bit of a neutraliser and a much bigger stage, but that was 60 vs 238 and went into a decider, this was 145 vs 173 and an under 1 hour beatdown.
Hopefully both Bellis and Konjuh can get back to where they once were because they were great additions to the main tour. Bellis having been in the top 35 and just over a year ago reached the Qatar P5 QF, the rotated equivalent of the event Bencic has just won and Konjuh has been top 20 and seeded in slams.
Speaking of 19 year old's, there's another currently in a decent position to take her 2nd WTA title, in Budapest.
Edit - maybe spoke too soon about that. Looks like I've properly jinxed Vondrousova. Was 6-1 5-4* when I posted that, now 6-1 5-7 0-3*

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Sunday 24th of February 2019 05:49:58 PM

AVU defended her title, 6-2 in the third.