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Post Info TOPIC: Coupe de France v FA Cup


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Coupe de France v FA Cup


One maybe aimed towards Coup Droit!†

We over here always think of the FA Cup as the top club cup competition. But looking at the French version, it seems to run ours pretty close in terms of number of entries, upsets over the years, chances for lower level clubs.†

As someone with links both sides of the channel,, I wondered what thoughts c.d had?



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JonH


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... and how seriously do the French take their cup ? †Clearly there has been much discussion about clubs putting out weakened teams in the FA Cup

The Spanish seem to take theirs quite seriously. Heard a program saying they used to not but then more recently Barca and Real Madrid have reckoned it helps oneupmanship in trophies won, and especially like currently when they are meeting each other over two legs it seems pretty important to them.



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True indi- our cup is strange sometimes isn't it. Wolves played Shrewsbury and for 28000 crowd , near full crowd. Newport v Boro for 4700, less than half full and spurs for 29000 at Wembley earlier in season in the cup. Each team and fan base seem to take it so differently

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JonH


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JonH wrote:

True indi- our cup is strange sometimes isn't it. Wolves played Shrewsbury and for 28000 crowd , near full crowd. Newport v Boro for 4700, less than half full and spurs for 29000 at Wembley earlier in season in the cup. Each team and fan base seem to take it so differently


†Most Premiership and Championship sides put out only Juniors or second XI teams till thet get to the QF. This used to be the biggest cup competition in the World - What when't wrong?



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Premier League £ £ £ £ £ £

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That is I guess my real question- and has it gone wrong in France also, ? The premier league and money as a start

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JonH


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indiana wrote:

Premier League £ £ £ £ £ £


†Totally agree



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The FA Cup is second to non.

The inclusivity of it is phenomenal, before most football fans have even registered its existence in the first week of January (3rd round proper 64 clubs) a phenomenal competition involving most of the competitions (673 of its 737) entrants with bumper gates, shocks, spills, thrills and Prize money has already finished. Cray Valley PM will never forget their destruction of Bostick League Premiership Mertsham or there loss to Oxford City, similar who in the Northern Football League will forget Dunston UTS FCs cup run this year.

The last bit of it may have altered a bit because of premiership money that doesnt filter down, OK so its different less relevant to the arm chair fans of the top 6. For everyone else a trip to Wembley for the SF and Final is still magical, I will never forget Jack Grealish and Christian Benteke taking Liverpool apart in the semi of 2015. As for the money, the FA have already shared out plenty of its TV revenue right through the pyramid.

Not quite as old as the Scottish Cup but the FA Cup founded in 1871 still delivers a multi tiered festival of football for close to 10,000! Players and their fans. No other national club cup competition can compare.


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Sorry, JonH, I'm not going to be be much help here.

I like the 'giant killer' stories in the FA Cup and the Coupe de France, especially in the early stages, but I don't really follow either as an event.

My overall impression is that they're pretty similar in approach.

Coupe de France has been around for well over 100 years. Open to everyone. There's about 10 rounds before the top league teams play (the lower leagues get phased in). The TV/press coverage is very similar to here - everyone loves it when a regional team puts out a big name. And there's LOTS of coverage.
But, yes, like here, I don't think teams rank it as highly as the league but I'm honestly not sure by how much (in terms of what quality field you put out) or how that would compare to GB teams and their 'B' team approach.

I looked up where we are this year and it's down to the last 8, with 6 of those from League 1, one from L2 and one big 'feel-good story' team from N2 in Brittany. Certainly, this team is getting a lot of press, its little stadium was sold out for the L16 match, and all that.

I also see that in the L16, Paris St Germain played (and beat) a National league team, but put out a very decent squad.

But that's not hugely helpful overall - sorry.

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No worries CD. I had a quick look at wiki also just now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_Coupe_de_France



the thing that struck me was the number of teams that play in the early rounds , it seems like effectively every team in France of any level participates, a truly open competition. That is if I am reading the table correctly that shows the regional entries.

I see the level 4 team in the quarters is AS Vitre, with a 3500 capacity ground and they play Nantes (who of course are in the news over here currently for very sad reasons). Will follow with interest!



-- Edited by JonH on Friday 8th of February 2019 10:45:07 AM

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JonH


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Yes, there are certainly zillions of rounds, open to every Tom, Dick and Harry club (or French equivalent ).
About 10,000 truly little local clubs take part before even the first 'main' round happens which is when the lowest league teams join in. Then each league division joins in, one at a time, in each of the following rounds, until you get down to the last 64 (ninth round, I think) which is when the Premier Div join in.

PSG seem to have a stranglehold on the event recently - didn't realise that.

I do remember watching (on TV) little Sochaux defeat O Marseille in a penalty shoot-out, in 2007. That was fun

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Thanks CD and Jon, interesting stuff. seems quite a lot of comparisons with the FA Cup in the early rounds and the late rounds are not that special these days. I think sometimes people are too quick to say no cup like the FA Cup, no league like the Premier League. Though probably none marketed as well.



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I think it's such a shame the way the FA Cup has gone. I remember when I was a lad and my team reached the final and the whole day would be built up towards it. The captain would be introducing all the players and it would have a massive feel, but it's totally different now.

There's teams like Huddersfield, Cardiff, Newcastle and Burnley and a couple of others who you can kind of understand prioritising other things and the same with the top clubs, but teams from 7th to 12th like Everton, Leicester, West Ham etc. who have far more resources than the bottom 4 or 5, aren't going to go down and are very unlikely to finish in the top 4, this should be their season and they should really be resting players for league games instead instead if they want to 'use their squad', those teams lost to Millwall, Newport and AFC Wimbledon respectively and while there was variation in the strength of respective line ups, a lot of star players were rested. Teams obviously want to stay up as that is where the money is, but who really cares if a midtable side finishes 8th, 9th, 10th or 11th? The 8m or so in prize money can get you what, not even one fifth of Richarlison?

I guess another things is the amount of football on TV in general now which seems to lower the importance as well. Don't really see how they can revive it now. You keep hearing give the winner a Champions League place, but that will never happen.

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I honestly dont think the FA Cup has gone despite the Premiership and Champions Leagues desire to destroy any competition, yes it is less relevant to probably 5 or 6 clubs at the very top of the game but even then if they get to the last 8 they suddenly get interested again. Sometimes the SF tickets can be hard to sell as they are both played at Wembley, but really that depends on who has got there and how much else is going on for their fans.

I did not realise as how inclusive the French Cup is, but remember well Calais trip to the final, it made the UK news. A big difference is the fact that in France if there is a two division difference the big club has to go away, not good from a fiscal point of view for the lower league club as in the FA Cup an away draw as the gate receipts are shared at a Premiership club will for example in Lincolns face set them up with the money to develop their training ground and a football academy.

In terms of history the French Cup is a yungester founded as late as 1917, 47 years after the FA Cup. Ok so the present FA Cup is not the genuine article, the Villa had the real thing nicked from a shop front they were displaying it in in 1895 we got fined £25 but had insured it for £200. The French hadnt even started playing for theirs. Villa also had the European Cup nicked, Colin Gibson and Gordon Cowans (who you can forgive anything) had taken it to the pub and got distracted playing darts fortunately it turned up at a Staffordshire police station, the coppers organised a game of in house football for it before giving it back.

Personally that Villa v Liverpool semi in 2015 will be one of the highlights of my football playing and watching life, but right up there would be Worcester Citys wins over Plymouth in 1978 the trip to Newport for the away draw to Newport on a football special there were 7,000 at the match .... Worcester City had a football special!! And at the return fixture we squeezed 10,000 into St Georged Lane. Similarly Worcesters defeat of Coventry at the Ricoh in 2014, the 13-14 loss v S****horpe live on telly v S****horpe..for the genuine football fan it is theatre of the highest quality .... but there again some people follow Futures Tennis I enjoy the FA Vase, there is nowt as queer as folk.

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Fa cup final has now been won six nil twice, once by each of Manchester top two teams. City today and bury in 1903

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JonH
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