wolf wrote:

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Err, no, it was Evo who started it by making it personal. You've responded with points that had nothing to do with what I said.

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 Not sure who's post this was responding to?

wolf wrote:

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Err, no, it was Evo who started it by making it personal. You've responded with points that had nothing to do with what I said.

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 Evo's comments were about doubles players in general. Jamie chose to take them personally but they weren't

Born2WinTennis wrote:

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Slightly off topic but does anyone know if it's just Britain's tennis club structure with a myopic focus on doubles, or do other European countries also suffer from this affliction? For example we have team tennis, which is 6 team matches a year that includes singles, but all other team tennis, at club level, is doubles only.

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 Absolutely not.

The obsession with doubles at club level is completely British. (Well, as opposed to European, don't know about the US, Japan, Australia etc.)

I've complained bitterly about this before, even to the LTA.

As a passable club player, there is nowhere at all in the UK for me to play tennis as a competitive sport, i.e. singles, that counts for ranking points. I have zero interest in playing doubles (apart from for a laugh, here and there). Nor do I want to play one-hour matches for some unofficial local area thing, or internal ladder in a club.

In France (and Germany, Italy and most other European countries), all club tennis is singles. That is, team events are normally three singles and a doubles, or four singles and two doubles. Right down to unranked level. In the department where I was, the only exception was a 70+ events, which was doubles only (although there were other singles events for over 70s).  And one very 'friendly' women's event, for people who didn't like singles. All the other team events (and there were tons) were predominantly singles. 

And individual tournaments are obviously singles, with some having a doubles draw too, but that's an afterthought. 

Nor is there ever any of this 'priority to doubles' rule at clubs in Europe where doubles players can kick singles player off the courts, or insist on joining in (as there often is in England). 

Coup Droit wrote:

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Born2WinTennis wrote:

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Slightly off topic but does anyone know if it's just Britain's tennis club structure with a myopic focus on doubles, or do other European countries also suffer from this affliction? For example we have team tennis, which is 6 team matches a year that includes singles, but all other team tennis, at club level, is doubles only.

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 Absolutely not.

The obsession with doubles at club level is completely British. (Well, as opposed to European, don't know about the US, Japan, Australia etc.)

I've complained bitterly about this before, even to the LTA.

As a passable club player, there is nowhere at all in the UK for me to play tennis as a competitive sport, i.e. singles, that counts for ranking points. I have zero interest in playing doubles (apart from for a laugh, here and there). Nor do I want to play one-hour matches for some unofficial local area thing, or internal ladder in a club.

In France (and Germany, Italy and most other European countries), all club tennis is singles. That is, team events are normally three singles and a doubles, or four singles and two doubles. Right down to unranked level. In the department where I was, the only exception was a 70+ events, which was doubles only (although there were other singles events for over 70s).  And one very 'friendly' women's event, for people who didn't like singles. All the other team events (and there were tons) were predominantly singles. 

And individual tournaments are obviously singles, with some having a doubles draw too, but that's an afterthought. 

Nor is there ever any of this 'priority to doubles' rule at clubs in Europe where doubles players can kick singles player off the courts, or insist on joining in (as there often is in England). 

  

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Yes for this reason, my son (in his mid-20s) plays only in weekend tournaments and not in club tennis at all, since that's the only way he can play singles, which is what he wants to play. The downside of course is that there is then almost no social element to playing the sport, which is also one of the reasons non-professionals play any game. It isn't very satisfactory at any level, and means that clubs only really cater for those who don't have any real competitive interest in the game. This is of course another major reason why the performance base in terms of #s of players is not increasing in UK tennis. If you look at the way that other amateur sport works, eg football, rugby, there is a wide network of clubs that allow players, once they have left school, to carry on playing the game at whatever level they wish (depending on how seriously they wish to continue playing the game). Tennis doesn't work that way. So the squads of junior players receiving coaching at most clubs essentially disappear once the players leave school, with the majority simply ceasing to play the game except occasionally for fun. 

Our 'local' club plays an annual match against a French club from near Rennes. The towns are comparable sizes. The team from the French club always consists of club members only and contains a constant stream of young players, including the club coaches etc. The English 'club' participants are most non-members, who have simply been involved in the exchange for several years, recruiting their friends to participate. New members from the club itself are minimal at best. Two different systems, one encourages participation, the other does not. 

Coup Droit wrote:

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Born2WinTennis wrote:

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Slightly off topic but does anyone know if it's just Britain's tennis club structure with a myopic focus on doubles, or do other European countries also suffer from this affliction? For example we have team tennis, which is 6 team matches a year that includes singles, but all other team tennis, at club level, is doubles only.

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 Absolutely not.

The obsession with doubles at club level is completely British. (Well, as opposed to European, don't know about the US, Japan, Australia etc.)

I've complained bitterly about this before, even to the LTA.

As a passable club player, there is nowhere at all in the UK for me to play tennis as a competitive sport, i.e. singles, that counts for ranking points. I have zero interest in playing doubles (apart from for a laugh, here and there). Nor do I want to play one-hour matches for some unofficial local area thing, or internal ladder in a club.

In France (and Germany, Italy and most other European countries), all club tennis is singles. That is, team events are normally three singles and a doubles, or four singles and two doubles. Right down to unranked level. In the department where I was, the only exception was a 70+ events, which was doubles only (although there were other singles events for over 70s).  And one very 'friendly' women's event, for people who didn't like singles. All the other team events (and there were tons) were predominantly singles. 

And individual tournaments are obviously singles, with some having a doubles draw too, but that's an afterthought. 

Nor is there ever any of this 'priority to doubles' rule at clubs in Europe where doubles players can kick singles player off the courts, or insist on joining in (as there often is in England). 

  

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 I used to play reasonable standard Yorkshire League (Div 3)  and Middlesex League (Div 2 at the time) tennis when I was in my teens and through to around 30 (so mid 90's as I am 53 now). ALL of the matches in those leagues had doubles only, 3 pairs per team, all play all in usual 9 rubbers match with best of 3 sets at weekends (no tb when I played Yorkshire League at least) and  2 sets mid week. In my Yorkshire league days many of the venues like Ilkley, Scarborough, Chapel Allerton, Huddersfield  etc  had grass courts or shale with a few hard courts. Middlesex had some grass, some artificial grass (Teddington for example) and mainly hardcourts. Standard was pretty high, we had a Lincolnshire County Captain as our captain in the Middlesex League. 

the point being that it was all doubles , no real room or space for singles at all. Personally I loved doubles as it suited my game - I was quite a flashy player, serve volley was my natural style back then and in singles, partic on a hard court, I would typically lose to a grinder who could outlast me or pass me. In doubles, my flashy game seemed more successful, I had a decent net game as well, but I also liked playing in a pair and feeding off someone else. 

But I agree, we put way too much emphasis on doubles in the UK - mind you I havent played league tennis since around 1999 so  probably way out of date!