Transition tour

JonH · All-time great

Transition tour

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Wow so a $15k tournament can make $5k from selling the data? The data is publicly available but I presume the sale of it is in real time to allow betting companies to do in play betting? I really feel sports betting will be the next #metoo type initiative. It can't be healthy when the country produces thousands of problem gamblers and the chief of Bet365 takes home over £150m in a year.

JonH · All-time great

I talked in a thread on the ladies site about "narrative" and that is one thing the Transition Tour lacks - or the ITF World tour as they seem to want to call it. The whole rankings debacle creates an issue whereby it is hard for the layman to see where the new ITF 15 and 25 events actually fit into it all. The ITF could gain something back perhaps by creating a points structure for the ITF Tour that links into some sort of ITF Masters event, an end of season event. I realise we have the World Tour Finals for the top guys and Next Gen finals for the younger top pro's, which in turn sort of usurped the Challenger Tour finals that occured for a few seasons maybe in the early part of this decade, but some sort of ITF Finals, maybe for more than 8 players, say the top 32 with a lot more ITF points for grabs and perhaps with a much bigger prize fund, lets say $100k for a 32 man event, might work to create some interest and something to aim for for players at the ITF level. Maybe a mens and womens final in the same week, 16 players or 32 players in each...

indiana · Tennis legend

I do like some of the things you say about narrative, Jon.

Trouble with say an ITF race and masters event is essentially the players don't really want to be collecting ITF points, they want to move on to ATP/WTA points asap and really we probably don't want to create encouragement otherwise.

And indeed the players who initially build up more ITF points in a period would be some of the better players liable to move on. So many of the final leading players would be players decent at collecting ITF points but not at moving on ( I guess a bit similar to the former challenger tour finals ).

Still it's good to try and think of something to maybe improve the relative mess that has been created so good on that.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 5th of February 2019 07:36:13 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

seagull wrote:
Another twist has emerged on this topic.

Apparently ATP were quite willing to offer ATP points for transition/Futures events. The only proviso being was not to sell the data to betting companies.

The ITF decided to sell the data and not have the points.

Simon Chambers is now reporting on Twitter that the ITF are now denying this - no surprise there I suppose.

ITF says there is no truth to the rumour that ATP ranking points for the ITF World Tennis Tour were conditional on ITF discontinuing data sales.

Michael D · All-time great

Yes, on the subject of narrative, the only narrative currently being created around the transition tours is 'how on earth do we get out of this place', and then the sounds of hundreds of people starting to panic when they realise that the only exits currently planned look incredibly small and far away. It will be interesting to see the numbers in 6 months of just how many men and women have managed to climb over the barrier into the promised land (and those that have been chucked back over the wall the other way).

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Found this graphic with an analysis of available places on the ITF tour for the women over the first three months of the year. Lots of negative numbers. Don't know if it is too late to add additional tournaments to the March schedule that would alter the figures.

ITF Participation.jpg

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Here is an equivalent chart for the men with similar conclusions.

ITF Participation Men.jpg

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just to mention that, as of 11/02/19, Evan Hoyt is +5 to ITF 14

That's got to be a very useful ranking in terms of getting those ITF reserve spots - he'll get into the MD of pretty much any Challenger event, and 25k now.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Just to mention that, as of 11/02/19, Evan Hoyt is +5 to ITF 14

That's got to be a very useful ranking in terms of getting those ITF reserve spots - he'll get into the MD of pretty much any Challenger event, and 25k now.

I think that is his Doubles ranking CD. His singles ITF ranking is 89, although the way he is playing, it won't be long before that is 14 (or above) as well.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Just to mention that, as of 11/02/19, Evan Hoyt is +5 to ITF 14

That's got to be a very useful ranking in terms of getting those ITF reserve spots - he'll get into the MD of pretty much any Challenger event, and 25k now.
I think that is his Doubles ranking CD. His singles ITF ranking is 89, although the way he is playing, it won't be long before that is 14 (or above) as well.

Seriously ???

I am truly brain-challenged at times........ cry cry cry

(and was wondering how he'd jumped so high.....)

So, off that, all change, and hasn't Evan done well to go up 12 places to be ITF 89 this week

(sigh.......)

Strongbow · All-time great

JonH · All-time great

So who is the better player currently ? Lloyd Glasspool (ATP 428, ITF 109) or Brydan Klein (ATP 369, ITF 400)?

Or select your pairing of choice...

Madadman · Top national player

Looks like the ATP council will be discussing the transition tour at their next meeting.
metro.co.uk/2019/02/17/itf-hits-back-sergiy-stakhovsky-blasts-new-tour-suggests-atp-intervention-8647152/

I do believe it is a bit of a shambles. I like the entry spaces for juniors, but the two tiers ranking system is just flawed.

brittak · Pro player

Am I alone in thinking that following the changes that there is something missing on a quiet Sunday afternoon with very little (GB) tennis to read about or scores to follow? I am feeling a bit bereft.....