JonH wrote:

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Coup Droit wrote:

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Etienne wrote:

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Hang on, I've not said he's committed a criminal act, or that he should have been charged with one. But to say he's not been "accused" of a criminal act, when he's admitted to cocaine use is more "disingenuous" than anything I've posted.

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 As said, the fact of using cocaine does not, in and of itself, make you guilty of the crime (mens rea, defences etc.). Much less 'accused'. So Evo admitting using it is only one part of what is needed to be guilty of the crime. So it is correct for Jonh to say that he has not been accused of a criminal act (unlike the other sportsmen listed). 

PS of course, ethically and morally, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Friday 17th of August 2018 12:37:45 PM

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 Indeed - Dan was not accused or charged with anything. Stokes was charged with affray and although found not guilty of that  was a) likely to have been found guilty of assault if the CPS hadnt messed up and b) was clearly filmed beating a guy to a pulp. He  was stood down from the Ashes but has now been picked for the next test and seems unlikely to face more sanctions. 

Cipriani has been found guilty and fined and now has , I presume , a criminal record. Although the RFU have charged him with a disrepute charge. The papers are full of writers suggesting he should be treated lightly and Eddie Jones will be sympathetic. 

 

It appears to be naked eye that Dan was treated harshly in comparison. That was my point really 

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While many folk may disagree with the ITF's stance on social drugs Evo was not treated unfairly by ITF precedence and their guidelines. He was a fool with the known likely consequences of failing a test and he knows it.

I think Stokes' position is still in doubt. The cricketing authorities were holding off on formal investigations until the criminal case was over but it is rather difficult to see that he has not brought the game into disrepute ( and Hales for one could also be on a charge ), criminally guilty or not. Some say move on, time served as he missed the Ashes, but we will see.

indiana wrote:

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JonH wrote:

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Coup Droit wrote:

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Etienne wrote:

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Hang on, I've not said he's committed a criminal act, or that he should have been charged with one. But to say he's not been "accused" of a criminal act, when he's admitted to cocaine use is more "disingenuous" than anything I've posted.

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 As said, the fact of using cocaine does not, in and of itself, make you guilty of the crime (mens rea, defences etc.). Much less 'accused'. So Evo admitting using it is only one part of what is needed to be guilty of the crime. So it is correct for Jonh to say that he has not been accused of a criminal act (unlike the other sportsmen listed). 

PS of course, ethically and morally, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Friday 17th of August 2018 12:37:45 PM

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 Indeed - Dan was not accused or charged with anything. Stokes was charged with affray and although found not guilty of that  was a) likely to have been found guilty of assault if the CPS hadnt messed up and b) was clearly filmed beating a guy to a pulp. He  was stood down from the Ashes but has now been picked for the next test and seems unlikely to face more sanctions. 

Cipriani has been found guilty and fined and now has , I presume , a criminal record. Although the RFU have charged him with a disrepute charge. The papers are full of writers suggesting he should be treated lightly and Eddie Jones will be sympathetic. 

 

It appears to be naked eye that Dan was treated harshly in comparison. That was my point really 

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While many folk may disagree with the ITF's stance on social drugs Evo was not treated unfairly by ITF precedence and their guidelines. He was a fool with the known likely consequences of failing a test and he knows it.

I think Stokes' position is still in doubt. The cricketing authorities were holding off on formal investigations until the criminal case was over but it is rather difficult to see that he has not brought the game into disrepute ( and Hales for one could also be on a charge ), criminally guilty or not. Some say move on as he missed the Ashes, but we will see.

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 well...more importantly is that dan won today, and well, so I guess I will move on from dragging up the past on Dan. We are where we are

 

Re Stokes - we all saw the videos...enough said

SF:  (2) Luke Bambridge & Neal Skupski CR 131 (80+51) defeated Thomas Fabbiano & Matt Reid (ITA/AUS) CR 900 (753+147) by 3 & 2

-- Edited by Stircrazy on Saturday 18th of August 2018 09:54:11 AM

indiana wrote:

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Th Aussies win was a QF. They meet an American pair ( who put out the #1 seeds in their QF ) in the SF.

Luke & Neal have the day off before the final.

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Whoops!  So t'was:  loooked at the overnight results instead of the live draw, saw there were two & jumped to the wrong conclusion...    Corrected.

EddietheEagle wrote:

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indiana wrote:

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While many folk may disagree with the ITF's stance on social drugs Evo was not treated unfairly by ITF precedence and their guidelines. He was a fool with the known likely consequences of failing a test and he knows it.

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This is not really the point, Indiana.

As a matter of fact, Evans was found by the ITF anti-doping tribunal to bear "No Significant Fault or Negligence for the violation". His sentence was eminently appealable to CAS and it is almost a given that, with sufficient savvy being applied through proper legal representation, his sentence would have been reduced by CAS. There is ample precedent for this view, both as to recreational drug violations as well as CAS appeals generally. ITF tribunal decisions are routinely knocked back at CAS, witness Cilic and Troicki.

Evans wasn't supported. He was immediately treated as a pariah, shunned by the LTA and left to fend for himself. We're all aware of that side of it. It was a very poor outcome for something he'd done out of competition in a non-sporting context. Cocaine isn't even a specified substance under anti-doping rules.   

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 exactly - even though the rfu are charging cipriani,  Gloucester his club are standing right by him and pushing back. Dan Evans had no Gloucester type support at all, he was hung out to dry. He doesn't have a big legal team or agency behind him, he's.just a bloke. 

I hope Dan wins this week and really pushes on. 

I got the stream up on TV in time for the last couple of games of the 1st set, which were intense, to say the least! My notes for those unable to watch:

Raucous crowd (mainly cheering for Vasek, obviously), no bps in the first 7 games.

Evo 0-30 back to 30-30 then Pospisil gets the first bp. Thats saved but the Canadian converts the next & will serve for the 1st set 3-5*

Dan fights back and gets 2 break points. An ace saves the first, an unreturnable the 2nd, another ace brings up set point, great, punchy rally and Dan saves it with a volley.

Another set point now, super return at VPs feet saves it.

Another set point saved, then another, but yet another ace from VP (5 in total now, 4 of them since 30-40 in this game!) means yet another set point and this time the Canadian converts

Dan has just held to love to start the 2nd set, it's a good battle but when Pospisil's serve is 'on', Dan has no say in what happens in the return games. Great match though, based on the 3 games I've seen!

VP holds to 15 - 3-6 *1-1

"Raucous crowd (mainly cheering for Vasek, obviously)"
Sounds a bit like a 50 strong DC crowd. Emjoy while you can !

Dan competing well, but the match seems to depend on pop's serve

-- Edited by the addict on Saturday 18th of August 2018 10:42:32 PM