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Post Info TOPIC: Brexit
Brexit Voting [61 vote(s)]

Voted Leave - Would Still Vote Leave
19.7%
Voted Leave - Would Now Vote Remain
3.3%
Voted Remain - Would Still Vote Remain
63.9%
Voted Remain - Would Now Vote Leave
0.0%
Didn't Vote - Would Now Vote Leave
0.0%
Didn't Vote - Would Now Vote Remain
8.2%
Other
4.9%


Futures qualifying

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Posts: 1746
Date:
Brexit


I wonder if you could actually get an honest answer of how many of those "rejoin"s actually voted for Brexit.

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Lower Club Player

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Posts: 148
Date:

I hope that they find a cure for your BDS soon Bob.

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Tennis legend

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Posts: 19259
Date:

Steve J wrote:

I hope that they find a cure for your BDS soon Bob.


They've already found a cure - rejoin wink

It's just no politician has the gumption to admit it.

 



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Tennis legend

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Posts: 19259
Date:

christ wrote:

I wonder if you could actually get an honest answer of how many of those "rejoin"s actually voted for Brexit.


If you go to this link ...

https://www.omnisis.co.uk/poll-results/vi-37-results-02-06-2023/

... click on download for the spreadsheet

then click on 'Table 9', you get the raw data.

Info on whether those sampled originally voted Leave or remain is at the right hand end of the table.

Or to save you the trouble:

Of those that originally voted Remain:

  • Rejoin 91%
  • Stay Out 9%

Of those that originally voted Leave

  • Rejoin 24%
  • Stay out 76%


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Challenger level

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Posts: 2547
Date:

Bob in Spain wrote:

They've already found a cure - rejoin wink

 


Just for one second imagine that we did Bob....what do you think that actually cost would be now?  I know that we were paying roughing £17billion per year before but, the rebate has finished, contributions have increased with the Covid recovery fund and so on but I have not seen estimates as what it would now cost?



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 Its really not as bad as they say :)



Lower Club Player

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Date:

Bob in Spain wrote:

On a more serious note, this is why the Aussie presenters were laughing. 


You would have thought that the presenters would have looked up the fact that "The UK exported £9.8 billion of goods and services to Australia in 2021 and imported £4.6 billion from Australia." (Commons Library) and the nice high tech AUKUS submarine deal before having a laugh. Or perhaps you wouldn't.

Anyway, sounds like a good deal for UK consumers, maybe the Australian beef will replace some that we currently buy from the Irish (which will be a good thing if the EU make the Irish get rid of some of their herds).



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Tennis legend

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Date:

Shhh wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:

They've already found a cure - rejoin wink

 


Just for one second imagine that we did Bob....what do you think that actually cost would be now?  I know that we were paying roughing £17billion per year before but, the rebate has finished, contributions have increased with the Covid recovery fund and so on but I have not seen estimates as what it would now cost?


From what I understood we were paying 13bn gross or 9bn net.  Either way, I agree it is a lot of money.

But ..... there are two sides to any equation.  Leaving the EU is costing the government 40bn in lost tax revenue according to the OBR. That is more than enough to cover the cost of membership and to give the nurses a well deserved pay rise as well - regardless of which figure we use.



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Tennis legend

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Date:

Steve J wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:

On a more serious note, this is why the Aussie presenters were laughing. 


You would have thought that the presenters would have looked up the fact that "The UK exported £9.8 billion of goods and services to Australia in 2021 and imported £4.6 billion from Australia." (Commons Library) and the nice high tech AUKUS submarine deal before having a laugh. Or perhaps you wouldn't.

Anyway, sounds like a good deal for UK consumers, maybe the Australian beef will replace some that we currently buy from the Irish (which will be a good thing if the EU make the Irish get rid of some of their herds).


The fact that you have quoted the figures for 2021, means that they relate to the period BEFORE the trade deal was signed and therefore have nothing to do with it.

As for the beef, the NFU are furious and saying it will put British farmers out of business.



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Tennis legend

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Date:

Bob in Spain wrote:

...

Freedom of Movement for me is a huge positive and not a negative. I will try to explain my belief in that.

Two philosophies that I hold to in life in general are: (1) We can achieve so much more in this world when we work together than when we work separately both at a micro and macro level. Freedom of movement encourages this. (2) If we are ever to eradicate the horrible prejudices that still blight this planet, whether that be racism, sexism, religious intolerance etc. the more we can integrate across cultures and the more we learn about each others way of life, the more chance we have of succeeding in that aim. Again, Freedom of Movement can play a huge part in that.

People fear what they don't know and they don't understand, which in turn can lead to tensions. Learning and integration reduces those fears. The opportunities for our students, as an example, to go and study at university in Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Madrid can cross those cultural boundaries. Having foreign students attending UK universities is not only good for them, but allows their fellow UK students to get a much broader perspective on the world at large and that has to be a good thing.

I understand fully that Brexit is not going to deny people these opportunities, but as a general rule of thumb, the fewer barriers we have for travel, the more people are likely to take up those opportunities.

...

A long time ago in this thread Shhh asked the very good question of what 'positives' people saw about being a member of the EU.  You will see part of my answer in the above message.

Today, it appears that my fears about reduced opportunities for young people have been vindicated.

In this piece in the Financial Times, it states that the number of UK young people working seasonal jobs in the EU has fallen more than two thirds since Brexit. Visa costs and employment law seem to be the main driving factors.

If you follow the link from this tweet the article is not behind a firewall.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1668977160650997766

If you want a good explainer of why this is the case, this video explains it well.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1318527384853897227

As seems most common, it is those at the younger and less well off end of the spectrum that suffer.  For so many of these young people seasonal work is the only way for them to finance their travels and broaden their horizons.

Perhaps, as the article suggests, there may be ways to solve this situation while still being out of the EU, but as things stand, it is just so sad to see.

 



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Tennis legend

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Posts: 19259
Date:

Not a rant this time but just a 'heads up'.

Tonight, BBC Question Time is dedicated to Brexit and the audience is going to be made up entirely of Leave voters. Unsurprisingly, the government have refused to send an MP to sit on the panel.

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Challenger level

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Date:

Bob in Spain wrote:

Not a rant this time but just a 'heads up'.

Tonight, BBC Question Time is dedicated to Brexit and the audience is going to be made up entirely of Leave voters. Unsurprisingly, the government have refused to send an MP to sit on the panel.


 Was that always the case Bob biggrin



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 Its really not as bad as they say :)



Tennis legend

Status: Online
Posts: 54750
Date:

Today is the seventh anniversary, believe it or not, of that referendum, marked in today's Evening Standard by this opinion piece by Jack Kessler, who's responsible for the paper's daily digital newsletter.  If anybody's interested in the Jonathan Portes piece on the cost of Brexit to the UK, to which reference is made, I couldn't get the link to work (I kept getting a page telling me I was forbidden access!), but I think this is it.



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Tennis legend

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Posts: 39930
Date:

Wow, yes longer than I'd have thought. Not an anniversary to remotely celebrate anyway but just to lament 



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Tennis legend

Status: Online
Posts: 54750
Date:

Bob in Spain wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:

...

Freedom of Movement for me is a huge positive and not a negative. I will try to explain my belief in that.

Two philosophies that I hold to in life in general are: (1) We can achieve so much more in this world when we work together than when we work separately both at a micro and macro level. Freedom of movement encourages this. (2) If we are ever to eradicate the horrible prejudices that still blight this planet, whether that be racism, sexism, religious intolerance etc. the more we can integrate across cultures and the more we learn about each others way of life, the more chance we have of succeeding in that aim. Again, Freedom of Movement can play a huge part in that.

People fear what they don't know and they don't understand, which in turn can lead to tensions. Learning and integration reduces those fears. The opportunities for our students, as an example, to go and study at university in Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Madrid can cross those cultural boundaries. Having foreign students attending UK universities is not only good for them, but allows their fellow UK students to get a much broader perspective on the world at large and that has to be a good thing.

I understand fully that Brexit is not going to deny people these opportunities, but as a general rule of thumb, the fewer barriers we have for travel, the more people are likely to take up those opportunities.

...

A long time ago in this thread Shhh asked the very good question of what 'positives' people saw about being a member of the EU.  You will see part of my answer in the above message.

Today, it appears that my fears about reduced opportunities for young people have been vindicated.

In this piece in the Financial Times, it states that the number of UK young people working seasonal jobs in the EU has fallen more than two thirds since Brexit. Visa costs and employment law seem to be the main driving factors.

If you follow the link from this tweet the article is not behind a firewall.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1668977160650997766

If you want a good explainer of why this is the case, this video explains it well.

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1318527384853897227

As seems most common, it is those at the younger and less well off end of the spectrum that suffer.  For so many of these young people seasonal work is the only way for them to finance their travels and broaden their horizons.

Perhaps, as the article suggests, there may be ways to solve this situation while still being out of the EU, but as things stand, it is just so sad to see.


Here's a novel approach now being adopted by the Germans, of all people. 



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Satellite level

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Posts: 1436
Date:

Stircrazy wrote:

Here's a novel approach now being adopted by the Germans, of all people. 


 

Not that surprising given the declining birth rate in Germany?


https://www.iamexpat.de/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/birth-rates-have-suddenly-decreased-germany%E2%80%8B



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