I like semantics and linguistics and whatever other term you want to give for the nuance of language

I don't have any problem with 'the great unwashed'

I take it to be the collective noun for 'Joe Schmo'

I saw this definition:

"This expression is pejorative and refers to people who do not have much money, or who lack a formal education. It can also be used in a more open sense to mean the general public."

And I see that my understanding is more the second sense than the first sense

But the fact that the definition gives two slants means it's also wrong to target people for using it when they might be using it in the second sense, not the first

i.e. you cannot see it as disgusting if you're looking at the second sense

NB it obviously would be extremely insulting and completely incorrect to suggest that anyone who voted for Brexit lacks education. But to say that people were lied to, and that some people believed those lies (perfectly understandably) is not wrong.

This is a one-off story. It is not intended to make a point of any sort. After all, you can never make a point with just one story, it's meaningless. I'm just putting the story out there as what it is: a story which has some connection to the above.

In 2016 I lived in a small block of flats in Central London. The porter was called Jeff. He was a stellar guy, a 70 year-old bloke from Essex, we got on very well. We talked about Brexit, I knew he was voting for, he knew I was against. It wasn't a problem. We had conversations very much along the lines of:

Jeff: I'm voting for Brexit coz they're taking all our jobs away
Me: But, if we get Brexit, there won't BE any jobs for them to take away

It was banter. We had a laugh. There was no intrinscially right or wrong answer. All fine.

The problem was Jeff had a villa in Spain. They'd had it for 20 years and it was him and his wife's pride and joy. They went there every year for a few months, their kids came out, and they were intending to retire there in 5-7 years.

Leaving the above general economic theorising to one side (), I said to Jeff:

But aren't you personally worried that Brexit might make things tricky with your villa and retiring?

And he said his wife was also really concerned but:

Jeff: I said to her it's no problem, they've told us that it'll be fine, nothing will change.

They? The government? The EU? The Spanish? The Daily Mail?

He wasn't to sure about the 'they' but he was very confident in what 'they had said.

I challenged him - Jeff, no one really knows what's going to happen, what sort of agreement we'll be in post-Brexit, if it happens. But it's got to at least RISK making things worse for you going to or moving to Spain, it's got to.

But nothing would change, he'd been told, and he was happy with that.

Fast forward to now and it's all gone pear-shaped. I don't know the ins and outs and wherefores but Jeff hasn't retired to Spain, it's really tricky/impossible, they can't even use it for holidays in the way they used to (bank account problems, I think, and something to do with health, not sure, he wasn't that lucid). But his wife has clinical depression, because of it.

So, I'm not for generalising based on one story. Make of it what you will.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Tuesday 2nd of May 2023 11:01:54 AM

And, of course, the net migration expected figures published this week seem to have come as rather a shock to the nation:

Last year we had the highest net influx ever, at over half a million.

This year it will be higher.

And supposedly forecast to be nearly a million

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/11/net-migration-million-home-office-government-conservative/#:~:text=Analysis%20by%20the%20Centre%20for,work%2C%20study%20or%20other%20reasons. 

Of course, the Ukranian figure is important in that number. Hopefully not a regular occurence.

But all miles higher than it was pre-Brexit

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Friday 12th of May 2023 11:02:16 AM

Bob in Spain wrote:

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Stircrazy wrote:

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A Beeb report of arguably particular interest to Bob.

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More so than you think SC.  I actually know people that work in that town hall as it is very close to where I live.  When I was trying to find contacts on the sports council in the town hall of San Fulgencio, a friend of mine (and captain of the cricket team I still help) with told me that his girlfriend's mum worked there.  That would be Samantha from the article.

I just sent the link to him and he recognised her instantly.

Small world eh ?

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Certainly is, Bob.  Something similar happened to me once, many moons ago.  It was in the days when journalists at The Times were on strike & the paper was therefore not being published, so I was reduced to buying The Grauniad, having tried The Torygraph & been driven to distraction.  One day, it published an interview with a professional (dentist?  Can't remember) Latvian lady in Leeds who was heavily involved with a local women's charitable/volunteer organisation (I think the Soroptimists).  I had an Australian penfriend whose parents had immigrated from Latvia after the Second World War.  I'd met her when she visited London as part of the world tour so many young Aussies seem to make.  During her time here, she met a chap from Leeds who followed her out to Oz after she went back & where they eventually got married.  I cut out the article & sent it to her, thinking that she & Juris might be interested.  Turned out she was his aunt!     She eventually migrated to Oz herself & I had the pleasure of meeting her on my first visit to Melbourne in 1992.  Quite a character!

So it's finally official.

Nigel Farage has admitted that Brexit has failed.

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1658234370409263106

Of course, it's not his fault ..... yada yada

Coup Droit wrote:

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House of Commons figures 12th May 2023:

Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower.

This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.3% higher.


OECD figures March 2023:

The OECD forecasts UK GDP to fall by 0.2% in 2023, the lowest figure in the G7.

The Eurozone is predicted to rise by 0.8%.


Thanks, Nige !

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And best not mention the Net Migration figures or Food Price Inflation

Genuine discussion here, but I don't quite understand this Shhh

Member states of the EU vote for Members of the European Parliament

So you and I (when in the EU) vote for our city councillors, vote for our Members of Parliament, vote for our European Members of Parliament

They are all democratic elections. They are all our voice in voting for policies etc at different levels.

Of course, there are EU committees etc that we never get to vote on

But we don't get to elect our Minister of Health either, or the Ministry of Education, or any other government department. We don't even get to elect our Prime Minister.

And it implies there is no international law

Britain has signed endless international treaties. We are bound by all those treaties. We cannot make policies that go against them. (Unless we break the law, or withdraw from them, or get a special exemption). So why is the argument here that we have to have complete freedom, when we don't.