AliBlahBlah wrote:

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I wonder. I wonder why we have continuously so belittled our greatest female player for 40 years, and even now, when she is GB #1 and achieving much more than any other BRit, even in this period where our up-and-coming players are up-and-coming very strongly and encouragingly indeed, still Johanna outstrips them all whilst in her own very low ebb of form; yet still she is at or around the best any other player has managed in those 40 years, better than Anne, or Bally, abou the same as Hev's best, a shade of Laura's very peak - still we see to write her off and denigrate her, and barely even acknowledge when she plays.
Yeah, I wonder alright. Of course, it says precious little to nothing about Johanna. It sure says a hell of a lot about us though.

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You must have been reading a different thread to me ABB, since I have not read anyone belittling Jo. Indeed all the comments I've read - and written - have been out of concern for Jo's future, and her ability to recognise and deal with a situation where her game has clearly deteriorated, as seen for one, in the plummeting of her ranking in the course of a year from 6 to its current live rank of 47. 

AliBlahBlah wrote:

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ROSAMUND wrote:

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Michael D wrote:

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Jo's adopted a very defensive mentality with the press that is very unwise. I like Kim Clijsters' comments in that BBC article you've posted, Helen, there are several wise statements there that Jo would take well to take heed of.

I listened to the excerpts of her post-match interview that the BBC kept replaying, and of course the start with the questions, 'Do you have any doubts?', and Jo's immediate response, 'No, none at all'. That statement in itself is such a denial of reality, that you just think, oh, here we go again, Jo refusing to face up to the obvious. How much smarter it would have been if Jo's response had been, 'Yes, of course, and I will be going away now to think how to reclaim the game that got me into the top 10 a year ago, because I know it is still there' (which is essentially what Kim said in one comment).

I wish I felt that Jo was getting ANY sound advice right now, but there isn't any evidence. Talking to Kim or Judy Murray would be a good start, they have some wise advice to offer, and Jo needs to listen to some wisdom if she does want to bounce back soon.

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 I think this denial of reality has been going on during 2018. On another website she has been described as sounding delusional which sums it up I'm afraid. Also her current coach Michael Joyce was an appointment nobody was keen on and unfortunately 2018 results have born this out.

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Yeah...Of course... they said the same thing in 2013, and 2015 (if you were following along at those points) about the choices and plans then, and Jo should just do the obvious correcive actions... (see above)

Instead she went to Garcia & Carrill - disaster, who's ever heard of them? Ridiculous!

We often know better than players: circa 2012-16: Wozniacki should get rid of her father as her coach - obviously - or she'll never win a Slam... circa 2014-15: Angie needs to drop Torben Belz - they've done great work together, but they've plateaued, if she wants to win a Slam, she need to get a big name coach... circa Jan 2015: Aga needs a super coach to take her that final little distance to becoming a Slam champion, some one like Martina would be the ideal winning ticket...

None of us know.
I've enjoyed the GB players press conferences becasue suddenly I'm finding out a whole lot of information - straight from the horses mouth - about players, training methods, setups, etc. Come on, who knew Harriet was studying Forensics? We don't know anything except what we see on the very occasional times we see them on stream or during the frantic six weeks of UK grass where we might see them play in person - a period which is singularly unrepresentative of the year in general.

None of us really know. (I'll spare Indiana their usual interjection here, that it's a forum of opinions, and I'm seeming to argue for no opinions to be forthcoming They're right, of course, but at least they don't have to repeat themselves again now. Is opinion, stated as certainty, framed as absolute, still opinion?)

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There has also been plenty of discussion in earlier threads in the last couple of months of how how game did indeed flourish under the mentorship of Esteban Carril and indeed Juan Coto too, and that what then happened to Coto undoubtedly adversely affected Jo, and also only shortly preceded her ending of the partnership with Carril. Since then she coped for a year with Wim Fissette and essentially maintained her game, but then following a poor second half of last year, she changed her coach again to Joyce, who incontrovertibly has presided over a decline in her form. 

So I do think in these posts of yours ABB you are dismissing people's understanding and awareness of Jo's history, as well as their genuine concern for her tennis future, about which she does have some reflecting to do and decisions to make.  

If your frame of reference is just this thread for the slights against Johanna, as though it somehow stands in isolation, antiseptic against everything since her form started to deteriorate after last years Wimbledon, then, respectfully, that's a useless frame of reference. As is just wondering what is wrong 'now' if you fail to understand the variable, almost cyclical nature of Johanna's career, where that FH in particular comes and goes. The over-aggression, the singular game plan; these aree not new things, they are not recent developments, they were derided before, and yet, Johanna overcame them by doing things that none of 'us (and by 'us, I not only mean the denizens here, but all her instant-expert critics everywhere) suggested, because, as with most every player, they know their game better than do we. It's not just wondering in innocent concern about the change, it's often a measure of schadenfreude that now, it has gone 'wrong' a justification for the animus.
The lack of enthusiasm for her achievements at her peak, and the ease and speed to condemn as soon as she slips is telling - even down to people directly saying they don't support her any more (eliding past the pretence that they ever did). That her matches are rarely if ever noted, save long after the fact - even at peak, and then only by a few members. That the ready eagerness for people to call her just average or found out or any other number of things as though every journeywoman player makes two Slam SF, and wins a Premier Mandatory, and makes top 5 in the rankings. These are not everday achievements, even one of them is exceptional. She won Miami! and yet USO Qualifying got more engagement. I've long tracked the numbers of views, and replies, and casually tracked them against similar contemporaneous threads.
She'll never get the acknowledgment she deserves here, in the UK, and it makes me sad. Perhaps it speaks to wider issues, geoplitical issues, that run along the same tracks and make me sad.

EDIT: So as to keep my word below, I edit to add a reply to a comment that came in whilst I was writing, from Michael D: "So I do think in these posts of yours ABB you are dismissing people's understanding and awareness of Jo's history, as well as their genuine concern for her tennis future, about which she does have some reflecting to do and decisions to make."  That frame of reference is already too late, that's the period during which the last fix was made and happened to work. What were your and others opinions about how she was doing prior to that in the similar position to how she is now? What suggestions did we collectively make at that similar time? Well, we had a lot of bad ideas that were all wrong. The same was true in 2011 and 2013 too. Unless you can point to contrary evidence. I well remember those two weeks in the top 100 before she fell back out, and then number of contributors that asid that she would be like Mel South, and that would be her lot, her entire tenure, and that she was damned lucky to have even had that. Jo happened to succeed, but they lay in wait for her to fail again, and now again they speak up, having been silent in the interrim, during the success, the collective silence deafening, and illustrative. END EDIT

As ever, I'd be very happy to argue this point pretty much ad infinitum, and hold my corner pretty aggressively. But, I also know that the forum hates threads like that. So, that'll be the last on this thread from me.
The next thread though, that's a different matter.

More positive, and less controversial: Doe we think at some point in the coming 18-24 months-ish we can get 5 into the top 100 in the same rankings?
Not happened in over 30 years. We seem to have a chance if everything goes very well. any five from Johanna, Heather, Naomi, Katie Boulter, Katie Swan, Harriet, Gabriella, *AN Other*.