Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (clay)

flamingowings · All-time great

Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (clay)

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Tennis Nut wrote:
LTA nothing to do with this.
Quoting Mike Dickson he says Jo deserves a degree of sympathy for having to carry home hopes in solitary fashion at the top of the women's game in the UK. This is because the LTA system with masses of money over the years cannot produce the players!
Completely agree about the LTA's failings.
But it is no excuse for Jo.
Ostapenko carried the home hopes in pretty much solitary fashion last year (certainly as much if not more that Jo) and did fine !
Halep isn't far off.
There are many countries with only one real contender.
Home players are under extra pressure at their home tournament.
But Jo has no one to blame but herself for doing so poorly at RG
If Jo has no one to blame but herself for doing so poorly at RG why is anybody calling for her to replace Mike Joyce? Secondly the media cottoned on to the fact that she had not won a match at Roland Garros but she also lost her first 4 singles matches at Wimbledon between 2012 and 2015. Nobody seemed to harp on about this at the time but this was probably because her ranking was a lot lower and she didn't get the attention she gets these days. Additionally in the years 2012, 2013 and 2015 the media was more interested in Laura Robson.
Because she CHOSE Mike Joyce

If Jo has only herself to blame for playing so poorly then there is no need for her to change her coach is there? One assumes she must still be happy working with Mike Joyce. A tennis coach is not like a football manager you keep on replacing when you have a couple of defeats. Laura Robson was forever changing coaches and it didn't seem to do her any good.

indiana · Tennis legend

In the match to decide Hev's R2 opponent Mertens led Lepchenko 6-7(9) 7-6(4) *3-0 when the rain arrived.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Lovely stuff. Well done Hev

Jan · Hall of fame

Have been out but able to check the scores every so often.
Well done Hev - I must confess I had to look twice to make sure I'd read the score properly!!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Tennis Nut wrote:
LTA nothing to do with this.
Quoting Mike Dickson he says Jo deserves a degree of sympathy for having to carry home hopes in solitary fashion at the top of the women's game in the UK. This is because the LTA system with masses of money over the years cannot produce the players!
Completely agree about the LTA's failings.
But it is no excuse for Jo.
Ostapenko carried the home hopes in pretty much solitary fashion last year (certainly as much if not more that Jo) and did fine !
Halep isn't far off.
There are many countries with only one real contender.
Home players are under extra pressure at their home tournament.
But Jo has no one to blame but herself for doing so poorly at RG
If Jo has no one to blame but herself for doing so poorly at RG why is anybody calling for her to replace Mike Joyce? Secondly the media cottoned on to the fact that she had not won a match at Roland Garros but she also lost her first 4 singles matches at Wimbledon between 2012 and 2015. Nobody seemed to harp on about this at the time but this was probably because her ranking was a lot lower and she didn't get the attention she gets these days. Additionally in the years 2012, 2013 and 2015 the media was more interested in Laura Robson.
Because she CHOSE Mike Joyce
If Jo has only herself to blame for playing so poorly then there is no need for her to change her coach is there? One assumes she must still be happy working with Mike Joyce. A tennis coach is not like a football manager you keep on replacing when you have a couple of defeats. Laura Robson was forever changing coaches and it didn't seem to do her any good.

She is playing poorly because (in part) she has a bad coach. And that coach was her choice. So she only has herself to blame.

It is, of course, hugely unfortunate what happened to her previous coaching set-up. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't be lucid now.

However, I agree - the main point is not her coach - that's just one of the factors. The bottom line is that the buck always stops with the player - they are the ones who have to perform, and only them.

But Jo is a lot happier on grass and hopefully the clay season will just be another unpleasant red dirt part of the year to put behind her and things will be a lot rosier going forward.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Monday 28th of May 2018 07:07:03 PM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Ocean did not play well but Hevs serving was lights out apart from the final game. I cant say I have ever seen her serve that well before and it gave Ocean no rest on hers.

Julia Carrot · All-time great

Well done Hev ! Me and my Mum cheered when she finally got over the line.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Oakland2002 wrote:
Ocean did not play well but Hevs serving was lights out apart from the final game. I cant say I have ever seen her serve that well before and it gave Ocean no rest on hers.

I only saw the first couple of games, but Hev couldn't land a first serve and the second serve was getting thumped. I assume from the comments above that suddenly changed.

the addict · Tennis legend

Change it did.
54% first serve in
9 Aces, 4 DF
84% won on first serve

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Brilliant news; well done Heather :D

Sim · County player

Good to see Hev getting the win.

The BBC think she has only won one prior match this year. Now I know it was a very long losing streak between Hobart and Nurnberg but even so.....

Michael D · All-time great

Congrats to Heather, glad to see an encouraging win and hope she can continue a little further. smile

On Jo, her first coach Carill, helped her on her journey up the rankings and they had great success together, except on clay. Last year with Wim Fissette, Jo continued to have success on the surfaces she liked, especially grass, but failed again on clay. It strongly suggests - no, it TELLS you loud and clear that you need to adapt your game on clay and try something different. Jo changed nothing on clay this year - and got the same results as in previous years. She did slightly better in Madrid because it has faster courts.

I have seen nothing so far this year to suggest that Joyce has added any value to Jo's game. So far all he has presided over is the start of her fall down the rankings. Obviously the success or otherwise of her season now depends on how she does on the grass. Let's hope things improve and she has a season not incomparable with last year. However that will likely be simply because Jo plays the same way as she before, and let's hope she can replicate that. If she really wants to change and adapt her game to different surfaces, including clay for future years, she will need a different coach, or at least a specialist coach for the clay season.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Michael D wrote:
Congrats to Heather, glad to see an encouraging win and hope she can continue a little further.

On Jo, her first coach Carill, helped her on her journey up the rankings and they had great success together, except on clay. Last year with Wim Fissette, Jo continued to have success on the surfaces she liked, especially grass, but failed again on clay. It strongly suggests - no, it TELLS you loud and clear that you need to adapt your game on clay and try something different. Jo changed nothing on clay this year - and got the same results as in previous years. She did slightly better in Madrid because it has faster courts.

I have seen nothing so far this year to suggest that Joyce has added any value to Jo's game. So far all he has presided over is the start of her fall down the rankings. Obviously the success or otherwise of her season now depends on how she does on the grass. Let's hope things improve and she has a season not incomparable with last year. However that will likely be simply because Jo plays the same way as she before, and let's hope she can replicate that. If she really wants to change and adapt her game to different surfaces, including clay for future years, she will need a different coach, or at least a specialist coach for the clay season.

Re Jo and her fall down the rankings, the slump started under Fissette when she only won 2 matches in 6 tournaments after Wimbledon. Some people were not happy with Fissette's coaching of Jo.Time makes us forget but her grass court record under Carril was fairly average,. She had a 6-4 loss record in 2015 and 2016 but in fact 2015 was better because she had the misfortune to draw Sharapova at Wimbledon. It's easy to forget that her last match not on clay was the wonderful win over Osaka in the Fed Cup. As for the clay court season it only lasts 6 weeks. If Jo was some promising 18 year old it would be worthwhile trying to improve her clay court skills but it is a bit late in the day at the age of 27 for what is only a short season. Better to concentrate on coaching the next generation on how to play on clay courts. At least Jo did not lose any ranking points in the clay court season. One wonders what Jo's relationship with the media will be like after her outburst in Paris after her defeat. Some of it was bleeped out.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Océane has hinted about continued health problems - although no one knows quite what.

Los of rumours too that it's all in her head - supposedly she completely blew a fuse after losing the very close match to Halep in Miami - wanted to give up tennis, smashed her phone up, said she'd rather lose 0 & 0 in the future than like that - she's not in a good place.

There's not a lot of sympathy for her, either, given the fed cup story/fiasco.

It's a shame - but extremely happy for Heather