Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (clay)

seagull · Hall of fame

Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (clay)

PaulM · Tennis legend

Appalling. Though I suppose every match she's lost at RG has been atrocious.

One of these now comes through this section:

Putintseva
Brady
Martic
Wang Q

What a waste. The coaching relationship is clearing bombing and she needs to kill it now before she's outside the top 60.

-- Edited by PaulM on Sunday 27th of May 2018 04:11:33 PM

Michael D · All-time great

Dallastone1 wrote:
Plan B, C and D needs to be seek out a new coach surely !!! Joyce seems to be a millstone round her neck.

Welcome to the board Dallastone, and yes, a few have been saying this for a while. Joyce is obviously adding nothing, and the sooner Jo accepts the inevitable the better.

For me perhaps the most remarkable thing was the rather upbeat interview Jo gave to the BBC earlier, where she stuck to the story that she is still relatively 'new' to clay - and that ain't the case - and expected to do better this year. But this without offering much real evidence in performances and obvious variations in her strategy leading up to RG that she could pull this off. And this is the most worrying thing for me - in that article Jo was deluding herself about her readiness/ potential to perform here given the current state of her game. If she is to climb back up the rankings she needs to shed the scales fast.

Moving to grass, and her favourite surface though, she might well be able to improve her performances, at least over the next few weeks, without really changing anything, since her aggressive style is more suited to clear. That would be a pity. If her game is to going to help her improve into the future, she has to develop a much greater adaptive ability, and the sooner the better. And since that will need a new coach, the sooner the better too...

Jan · Hall of fame

I lost count of the number of DFs. Surely that can't be down to the surface??

the addict · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
Jo has sooooo many points coming off / to defend during the grass season as well. I don't know how many but she will be right down the rankings if she doesn't do even somewhat ok.

1200 points to defend up to and including Wimbledon. Currently on 2050, so worst case down to 850, which is around WR70. But of course she'll pick points for just appearing, so won't be as bad as that.

Dallastone1 · Improver

Michael D wrote:
Dallastone1 wrote:
Plan B, C and D needs to be seek out a new coach surely !!! Joyce seems to be a millstone round her neck.
Welcome to the board Dallastone, and yes, a few have been saying this for a while. Joyce is obviously adding nothing, and the sooner Jo accepts the inevitable the better.
For me perhaps the most remarkable thing was the rather upbeat interview Jo gave to the BBC earlier, where she stuck to the story that she is still relatively 'new' to clay - and that ain't the case - and expected to do better this year. But this without offering much real evidence in performances and obvious variations in her strategy leading up to RG that she could pull this off. And this is the most worrying thing for me - in that article Jo was deluding herself about her readiness/ potential to perform here given the current state of her game. If she is to climb back up the rankings she needs to shed the scales fast.
Moving to grass, and her favourite surface though, she might well be able to improve her performances, at least over the next few weeks, without really changing anything, since her aggressive style is more suited to clear. That would be a pity. If her game is to going to help her improve into the future, she has to develop a much greater adaptive ability, and the sooner the better. And since that will need a new coach, the sooner the better too...

I see a blight similar to that which Ms Robson suffers from - that impatience that won't allow a point to develop - instead we just hit it very much harder sooner, begin to lose control and spray the ball asunder - hence 32 UE......

That tactic isn't going to work on any surface long term unless there is an alternative plan in the back pocket. Right now Joyce's pockets and ergo Jo's look empty !!!

-- Edited by Dallastone1 on Sunday 27th of May 2018 04:27:56 PM

-- Edited by Dallastone1 on Sunday 27th of May 2018 04:28:36 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
flamingowings wrote:
Jo has sooooo many points coming off / to defend during the grass season as well. I don't know how many but she will be right down the rankings if she doesn't do even somewhat ok.
1200 points to defend up to and including Wimbledon. Currently on 2050, so worst case down to 850, which is around WR70. But of course she'll pick points for just appearing, so won't be as bad as that.

It wouldn't be at all far off without winning with just 10 points for Wimbledon plus 1's ( and she has no spare current non counters above 1 point ). I sincerely hope and trust she will win some grass court matches with Wimbledon of course the biggie where she defends 780 points.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Not having out wonderful tables on here showing which scores count and what the backups are is a huge loss (miss you Stephen!). I didn't realise she still had as much as 800 from other tournaments!

scottie1 · Futures level

flamingowings wrote:
brittak wrote:
Really desperate! In the end didnt make Putintseva work for it at all. What concerns me is that we can all see what is going on but the man who is supposed to be helping her (and presumably is paid a lot of money to do so) cant.

Unless the grass court season goes well, I think there will be some coaching changes at the end of Wimbledon.

Really hope though that Jo can turn this all Around but something needs to change here...
Jo has sooooo many points coming off / to defend during the grass season as well. I don't know how many but she will be right down the rankings if she doesn't do even somewhat ok.

Marion Bartoli made the point in tennis you have to get the return of serve back and stay in the relay Konta's returns were 4 ft over the baseline , she was totally erratic in the match. I have said before I think the girls have worked out Konta's game and whether she does anything on grass remains to be seen. On the match today she is no better than Heather I think Konta's confidence has gone. Wimbledon with a semi last year is a big ask to repeat she needs a kind draw but I cannot see a repeat of last year the way she has been playing.

nicofrance · Strong Club Player

Very disappointing to see this result after a better clay performance in Madrid . I cannot understand how she hasnt learnt from previous years the need for some patience on clay .

Its as if shes determined to prove that she can just play the same on every surface.

Putting aside her clay court performances , her hard court game has also been poor and her confidence is shot to pieces .

One can only hope that a return to grass might lift the gloom .

indiana · Tennis legend

I think it is much more about Jo just playing badly, and generally worse than previously, than other players working out her game.

Real pity

scottie1 · Futures level

indiana wrote:
I think it is much more about Jo just playing badly, and generally worse than previously, than other players working out her game.

Real pity

agree to disagree.

flamingowings · All-time great

Meanwhile, the defending women's champion is in a wee bit of trouble, 5-7, 3-3 (several breaks already)

Ostapenko knocked out in straight sets.

-- Edited by flamingowings on Sunday 27th of May 2018 05:25:53 PM

Michael D · All-time great

PaulM wrote:
Not having out wonderful tables on here showing which scores count and what the backups are is a huge loss (miss you Stephen!). I didn't realise she still had as much as 800 from other tournaments!

Paul, these are the tables to go to if you want to see players current counters, backups, what's going and what's going off... Hover over the points tally and you will see the info. We've been using these this year to make up for the loss...

http://openerarankings.com/WTAHome

flamingowings · All-time great

Jo pulls no punches in her presser:
twitter.com/simonrbriggs/status/1000789293642780673