Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (Clay)

indiana · Tennis legend

Weeks 22 & 23 - French Open, Roland-Garros, Paris (Clay)

Vandenburg · Futures level

indiana wrote:
flamingowings wrote:
All that debate about Kyle being seeded 16...

Fabio is a tough customer. Kyle was pretty good to take it to 5.
Yes, in that discussion there was certainly a viewpoint that with the rankings a bit all over the place, at least with some players, being seeded 16 ( and being bracketed to face a 17-24 seed in R3 ) was on balance likely to be just about as tough as being seeded 17 ( and being bracketed to face a 9-16 seed in R3 ). And Fognini wasn't really the 17-24 seed you'ed pick. Also being a 13-16 seed bracketed Kyle with a 1-4 seed in the now not to be R4.
So certainly was a tough one. Though on the day winnable in quite a mixture from both, though as said in commentary Fognini excels in his mixture of good and bad.
Pity, this was possibly another Slam to have gone really deep in, probably still being his best Slam surface.
By the way, rather surprised to see that this will be only the second time that Fognini has reached the R-G last 16, having reached the QF in 2011. I guess though that that is very much about not stringing petformances together and the bad at some stage outweighing the good in matches he was probably well capable of winning. Kyle needed just a bit more Fognini bad today ( or a bit more Kyle good ).

-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 2nd of June 2018 02:42:02 PM

The player with more natural talent won

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
indiana wrote:
flamingowings wrote:
All that debate about Kyle being seeded 16...

Fabio is a tough customer. Kyle was pretty good to take it to 5.
Yes, in that discussion there was certainly a viewpoint that with the rankings a bit all over the place, at least with some players, being seeded 16 ( and being bracketed to face a 17-24 seed in R3 ) was on balance likely to be just about as tough as being seeded 17 ( and being bracketed to face a 9-16 seed in R3 ). And Fognini wasn't really the 17-24 seed you'ed pick. Also being a 13-16 seed bracketed Kyle with a 1-4 seed in the now not to be R4.
So certainly was a tough one. Though on the day winnable in quite a mixture from both, though as said in commentary Fognini excels in his mixture of good and bad.
Pity, this was possibly another Slam to have gone really deep in, probably still being his best Slam surface.
By the way, rather surprised to see that this will be only the second time that Fognini has reached the R-G last 16, having reached the QF in 2011. I guess though that that is very much about not stringing petformances together and the bad at some stage outweighing the good in matches he was probably well capable of winning. Kyle needed just a bit more Fognini bad today ( or a bit more Kyle good ).

-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 2nd of June 2018 02:42:02 PM
The player with more natural talent won

Agree totally. But the player with a better work ethic and a more professional attitude lost. Of the two, I know which one I'd prefer to work with. But at the end of the day. the players ranked 17 and 18 in the world played out a 5 set nail-biter. In the end, someone had to lose but there was little in it.

Vandenburg · Futures level

Bob in Spain wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
indiana wrote:
flamingowings wrote:
All that debate about Kyle being seeded 16...

Fabio is a tough customer. Kyle was pretty good to take it to 5.
Yes, in that discussion there was certainly a viewpoint that with the rankings a bit all over the place, at least with some players, being seeded 16 ( and being bracketed to face a 17-24 seed in R3 ) was on balance likely to be just about as tough as being seeded 17 ( and being bracketed to face a 9-16 seed in R3 ). And Fognini wasn't really the 17-24 seed you'ed pick. Also being a 13-16 seed bracketed Kyle with a 1-4 seed in the now not to be R4.
So certainly was a tough one. Though on the day winnable in quite a mixture from both, though as said in commentary Fognini excels in his mixture of good and bad.
Pity, this was possibly another Slam to have gone really deep in, probably still being his best Slam surface.
By the way, rather surprised to see that this will be only the second time that Fognini has reached the R-G last 16, having reached the QF in 2011. I guess though that that is very much about not stringing petformances together and the bad at some stage outweighing the good in matches he was probably well capable of winning. Kyle needed just a bit more Fognini bad today ( or a bit more Kyle good ).

-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 2nd of June 2018 02:42:02 PM
The player with more natural talent won
Agree totally. But the player with a better work ethic and a more professional attitude lost. Of the two, I know which one I'd prefer to work with. But at the end of the day. the players ranked 17 and 18 in the world played out a 5 set nail-biter. In the end, someone had to lose but there was little in it.

If Fogmister had a brain, he could have been a grand slam winner.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Fogini is a very good player unfortunately he has played with a generation of 4-5 players with very few weaknesses. His best surface is clay by some distance and he was never going to beat Rafa, although perhaps this is the year?

Regardless he is great to watch and although Kyle came close, indeed could have walked away with a win, he has played very little 5 set tennis in comparison and Fogini had the experience to hang in there and finish.

Vandenburg · Futures level

Oakland2002 wrote:
Fogini is a very good player unfortunately he has played with a generation of 4-5 players with very few weaknesses. His best surface is clay by some distance and he was never going to beat Rafa, although perhaps this is the year? Regardless he is great to watch and although Kyle came close, indeed could have walked away with a win, he has played very little 5 set tennis in comparison and Fogini had the experience to hang in there and finish.

Not sure I buy this, even at the clay masters, after all these years he has a 1 semi and 1 QF to his name, hardly been knocking at the door all these years.

indiana · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Oakland2002 wrote:
Fogini is a very good player unfortunately he has played with a generation of 4-5 players with very few weaknesses. His best surface is clay by some distance and he was never going to beat Rafa, although perhaps this is the year? Regardless he is great to watch and although Kyle came close, indeed could have walked away with a win, he has played very little 5 set tennis in comparison and Fogini had the experience to hang in there and finish.
Not sure I buy this, even at the clay masters, after all these years he has a 1 semi and 1 QF to his name, hardly been knocking at the door all these years.

Yes and see that relatively poor French Open record again - just second time beyond the L32. I would imagine in clay masters and the Slam he has very much more been beaten by players other than the top 4-5, indeed often beaten by himself. Great talent yes, but a heck of a lot more issues even on clay than Rafa. Ultimately, he has far from being close to being a pretender to the clay throne.

indiana · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Oakland2002 wrote:
[...]
[...]
Regarding the next gen, we are now in the most ludicrous situation where zverev is verging on world number 1 despite never reaching a slam QF in his life. Madness.

Zverev has now reached a Slam QF

He was though taken to 5 sets for the third round in a row.

Rather remarkably I heard that his win over Dzumhur WR 29 in R3 here was his first Slam singles win over a top 50 player, and checking back that is indeed true. Khachanov WR 38 makes it two.

Not finding it easy but at least maybe beginning to back-up the view I expressed in my original reply that Zverev is the real deal and with increased maturity would show it in the Slams in time.

Vandenburg · Futures level

indiana wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Oakland2002 wrote:
[...]
[...]
Regarding the next gen, we are now in the most ludicrous situation where zverev is verging on world number 1 despite never reaching a slam QF in his life. Madness.
Zverev has now reached a Slam QF
He was though taken to 5 sets for the third round in a row.
Rather remarkably I heard that his win over Dzumhur WR 29 in R3 here was his first Slam singles win over a top 50 player, and checking back that is indeed true. Khachanov WR 38 makes it two.
Not finding it easy but at least maybe beginning to back-up the view I expressed in my original reply that Zverev is the real deal and with increased maturity would show it in the Slams in time.

Yes congrats to Zverev, on beating his a top 50 player in a slam for the first time, might as well give him the trophy.

He plays thiem-park next?? Dom destroyed the Ninja today, and he will also make a joke out of this brat.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Yes congrats to Zverev . [...] He plays thiem-park next??

Oh, grow up, will you? That attempted play on words works only for ignorant, monolingual Brits who think that "Thiem" is pronounced like "theme" rather than "team", as you, of all people, should know! disbelief Your ill-considered jibes at the top players purely because you apparently don't like/rate them have no place in this forum. evileye

Vandenburg · Futures level

Stircrazy wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Yes congrats to Zverev . [...] He plays thiem-park next??
Oh, grow up, will you? That attempted play on words works only for ignorant, monolingual Brits who think that "Thiem" is pronounced like "theme" rather than "team", as you, of all people, should know! Your ill-considered jibes at the top players purely because you apparently don't like/rate them have no place in this forum.

Typical Guardian reader- cannot handle the truth. Zverev beat his first top 50 player in a grand slam, a very alarming stat, for a triple masters champion, a stat that deserves to be ridiculed and poked at.

Problem in this forum, is that people like you cannot handle any kind of criticism of players or strong opinions. Is in a way very similar to feminazi philosophy of the 80s, we seek to be a liberal easy going forum, but at the same time, crush freedom of speech and opinions if we do not like them.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I have no issue whatsoever with your free speech rights, Vandy, never have.

Re Zverev, however, he's only 21. In a sport where the peak is 27.5

Yes, his ranking was based more on other tournaments, not on grand slams. But he was always going to get his act together in grand slams, it was only a matter of time. He's got too much talent not to. And age is relevant. So it's nothing to ridicule, just to acknowledge.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

Vandenburg wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Yes congrats to Zverev . [...] He plays thiem-park next??
Oh, grow up, will you? That attempted play on words works only for ignorant, monolingual Brits who think that "Thiem" is pronounced like "theme" rather than "team", as you, of all people, should know! Your ill-considered jibes at the top players purely because you apparently don't like/rate them have no place in this forum.
Typical Guardian reader- cannot handle the truth. Zverev beat his first top 50 player in a grand slam, a very alarming stat, for a triple masters champion, a stat that deserves to be ridiculed and poked at.
Problem in this forum, is that people like you cannot handle any kind of criticism of players or strong opinions. Is in a way very similar to feminazi philosophy of the 80s, we seek to be a liberal easy going forum, but at the same time, crush freedom of speech and opinions if we do not like them.

If you don't like it, go and troll somewhere else.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Yes congrats to Zverev . [...] He plays thiem-park next??
Oh, grow up, will you? That attempted play on words works only for ignorant, monolingual Brits who think that "Thiem" is pronounced like "theme" rather than "team", as you, of all people, should know! Your ill-considered jibes at the top players purely because you apparently don't like/rate them have no place in this forum.
Typical Guardian reader- cannot handle the truth. Zverev beat his first top 50 player in a grand slam, a very alarming stat, for a triple masters champion, a stat that deserves to be ridiculed and poked at.
Problem in this forum, is that people like you cannot handle any kind of criticism of players or strong opinions. Is in a way very similar to feminazi philosophy of the 80s, we seek to be a liberal easy going forum, but at the same time, crush freedom of speech and opinions if we do not like them.

A Grauniad reader? Me? Nothing could be further from the truth, so stop jumping to conclusions on the basis of your perception of comments posted on here. I wouldn't touch it with the proverbial barge pole. I do, however, object to the way in which you constantly & consistently disparage players who don't measure up to your self-proclaimed high (??? disbelief ) standards. You're fully entitled to your views, but "crush" is a strong word. Honest opinions, backed up by reasoned evidence, are always welcome on here. Yours, on the other hand, almost invariably come across as just plain spiteful & nasty.

Vandenburg · Futures level

Helen40 wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Vandenburg wrote:
Yes congrats to Zverev . [...] He plays thiem-park next??
Oh, grow up, will you? That attempted play on words works only for ignorant, monolingual Brits who think that "Thiem" is pronounced like "theme" rather than "team", as you, of all people, should know! Your ill-considered jibes at the top players purely because you apparently don't like/rate them have no place in this forum.
Typical Guardian reader- cannot handle the truth. Zverev beat his first top 50 player in a grand slam, a very alarming stat, for a triple masters champion, a stat that deserves to be ridiculed and poked at.
Problem in this forum, is that people like you cannot handle any kind of criticism of players or strong opinions. Is in a way very similar to feminazi philosophy of the 80s, we seek to be a liberal easy going forum, but at the same time, crush freedom of speech and opinions if we do not like them.
If you don't like it, go and troll somewhere else.

Remind me how many forum topics have you started which have generated so much debate and conversation in the last year?, whilst I am known for starting debates which attract record posts. You're about as relevant as Karlovic on clay.