Week 26 - ATP 250 - Nature Valley International - Eastbourne, Great Britain (grass)

theemptyvessel · Club Coach

Week 26 - ATP 250 - Nature Valley International - Eastbourne, Great Britain (grass)

indiana · Tennis legend

theemptyvessel wrote:
Some serious nonsense being talked about passing of the torch etc. I don't think Kyle beating Andy in his third competitive match after a year out should be given so much significance. If Kyle beats him again after 3 or 4 months back on the tour then it might be more meaningful.

Absolutely, and why I felt the scoreline simply seemed decent on both sides. And flamingowings' subsequent interesting summary still doesn't suggest anything else.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

For me this was the best result for British tennis ... and I say that with ZERO disrespect for Andy Murray. For Kyle, this is another mental hurdle overcome and another big step along the road, while for Andy, it will provide even more motivation, as if he needed any, to fight his way back to the top.

More importantly, for the part-time fans, an Andy victory today would have led to comments about Kyle's position being completely false, that Andy can still beat him on one leg etc. I am not trying to say that this one result suddenly means Kyle is a better player than Andy, but what is does say is that if Andy wants his crown back, he is going to have to take it because Kyle isn't just going to give it to him.

Over the last ten years, Andy has been a world class player (and ambassador) for British tennis, carrying the public interest almost single handedly. And he has done that with aplomb. But ...

Question: What could be better than having a world class performer to inspire a nation and the up and coming players ?
Answer : Having the rivalry of TWO British players at the top of the game, battling it out on a regular basis on the biggest stages in the world.

For me, that rivalry began in earnest today. Long may it continue. I look forward to four or five years of these two "trading blows" on the big match courts, with each winning some and losing some but between them, raising the profile and the standing of British tennis around the globe.

We should be (and are) proud of BOTH of them

flamingowings · All-time great

theemptyvessel wrote:
Some serious nonsense being talked about passing of the torch etc. I don't think Kyle beating Andy in his third competitive match after a year out should be given so much significance. If Kyle beats him again after 3 or 4 months back on the tour then it might be more meaningful.

I'm sure, a long time ago, I heard something that was attributed to Kim Clijsters(?) about when players are coming back from injury that it takes as long as the time they were out to re-calibrate. Even 3/4 months isn't that long when he was out for very nearly a year and had two surgeries in that time for different things.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
For me this was the best result for British tennis ... and I say that with ZERO disrespect for Andy Murray. For Kyle, this is another mental hurdle overcome and another big step along the road, while for Andy, it will provide even more motivation, as if he needed any, to fight his way back to the top.

More importantly, for the part-time fans, an Andy victory today would have led to comments about Kyle's position being completely false, that Andy can still beat him on one leg etc. I am not trying to say that this one result suddenly means Kyle is a better player than Andy, but what is does say is that if Andy wants his crown back, he is going to have to take it because Kyle isn't just going to give it to him.

Over the last ten years, Andy has been a world class player (and ambassador) for British tennis, carrying the public interest almost single handedly. And he has done that with aplomb. But ...

Question: What could be better than having a world class performer to inspire a nation and the up and coming players ?
Answer : Having the rivalry of TWO British players at the top of the game, battling it out on a regular basis on the biggest stages in the world.

For me, that rivalry began in earnest today. Long may it continue. I look forward to four or five years of these two "trading blows" on the big match courts, with each winning some and losing some but between them, raising the profile and the standing of British tennis around the globe.
We should be (and are) proud of BOTH of them

I'll second those remarks, Bob. Eminently sensible. smile

SuperT · Futures level

Bob in Spain wrote:
For me this was the best result for British tennis ... and I say that with ZERO disrespect for Andy Murray. For Kyle, this is another mental hurdle overcome and another big step along the road, while for Andy, it will provide even more motivation, as if he needed any, to fight his way back to the top.

More importantly, for the part-time fans, an Andy victory today would have led to comments about Kyle's position being completely false, that Andy can still beat him on one leg etc. I am not trying to say that this one result suddenly means Kyle is a better player than Andy, but what is does say is that if Andy wants his crown back, he is going to have to take it because Kyle isn't just going to give it to him.

Over the last ten years, Andy has been a world class player (and ambassador) for British tennis, carrying the public interest almost single handedly. And he has done that with aplomb. But ...

Question: What could be better than having a world class performer to inspire a nation and the up and coming players ?
Answer : Having the rivalry of TWO British players at the top of the game, battling it out on a regular basis on the biggest stages in the world.

For me, that rivalry began in earnest today. Long may it continue. I look forward to four or five years of these two "trading blows" on the big match courts, with each winning some and losing some but between them, raising the profile and the standing of British tennis around the globe.
We should be (and are) proud of BOTH of them

Well said Bob. This is spot on.

Jan · Hall of fame

And I'd like to third them please.
I'd have been seriously worried about Kyle's game if he'd lost today.
Andy will get better and sharper, and maybe one day if they play again the result will be different.
But well done to both - I managed to see quite a lot of the match and it was very enjoyable.

edit - the "thirding" was about Bob's remarks - I obviously type too slowly!

-- Edited by Jan on Wednesday 27th of June 2018 06:34:09 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
theemptyvessel wrote:
Some serious nonsense being talked about passing of the torch etc. I don't think Kyle beating Andy in his third competitive match after a year out should be given so much significance. If Kyle beats him again after 3 or 4 months back on the tour then it might be more meaningful.
I'm sure, a long time ago, I heard something that was attributed to Kim Clijsters(?) about when players are coming back from injury that it takes as long as the time they were out to re-calibrate. Even 3/4 months isn't that long when he was out for very nearly a year and had two surgeries in that time for different things.

Have often heard that said though hadn't heard it attributed to Kim Clijsters. I tend to think it is far too variable to have such a supposed rule of thumb but more that in general it takes time and all things being equal ( which they often aren't ) yes the longer out the longer to come back is probably true and a better, if just rather logical, 'rule'.

flamingowings · All-time great

This is the thing isn't it...you can be a fan of both at the same time. I will be so sad when Andy retires but I now believe Kyle will do great things in his career. I admit, I was a doubter. And GB men's tennis is in a much better place now than it was when Andy was Kyle. We have 3 other men in the top 250 who aren't called Kyle or Andy, a bunch of juniors and Dan. Doubles too, seems very strong at the moment.

Smudge226 · Strong Club Player

England 1 Scotland 1
Can't wait for the final.

12years since Andy beaten by another brit according to bbc5live, top man, great to have him back..

flamingowings · All-time great

Smudge226 wrote:
England 1 Scotland 1
Can't wait for the final.

12years since Andy beaten by another brit according to bbc5live, top man, great to have him back..

That sounds impressive (and it is!) but...how often has he faced another Brit in those 12 years? He has been GB tennis for that long!

ATP website has the h2h as

Andy 2 Kyle 0 (to be updated to 2-1)

Andy 1 Bedene 0

Andy has never played Dan, J Ward or Alex Ward.

Who is left?

-- Edited by flamingowings on Wednesday 27th of June 2018 06:51:52 PM

Michael D · All-time great

flamingowings wrote:

Andy was very vocal, the passion is very much still there, to be able to compete and get the win. Has gone a bit Cilic/Djokovic with the ball bouncing though...maybe a sign of nerves? He was reading his notes at the change over. Not to be today. I personally don't think Andy is ready for Wimbledon.

Very tough to watch, I support Andy more but I can't dislike Kyle - so I'm happy he got the win and what it means for him and his career.

Interesting that Judy Murray also made a remark about Andy taking 'baby steps' back after his win over Stan. It seemed to me she was dampening expectations about his participation at Wimbledon. It will be interesting to see which of the heart vs head Andy's wins out, but it would seem sensible for him to go back into training now and prepare for the US hard court swing and give the 5 set matches a miss for now. He and Dan can train together.

flamingowings · All-time great

Cam 1st on CC at 11, Kyle last on CC, nb 4 pm.

Priesty · Challenger level

Stircrazy wrote:
TCUFrog wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
L16: (LL) Jay Clarke WR 236 defeated (LL) Jay Clarke WR 236 by 4 & 3
*****
QF: Lukas Lacko (SVK) WR 94 (CH = 44 in January 2013 - & 30 years old) vs (LL) Jay Clarke WR 236
Huh?
Norrie beat Clarke and will play Lacko
No idea what happened there! Something clearly went wrong in the copying & pasting process !

It was your own way of expressing your view that Jay beat himself today wasn't it SC? wink

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Michael D wrote:
flamingowings wrote:

Andy was very vocal, the passion is very much still there, to be able to compete and get the win. Has gone a bit Cilic/Djokovic with the ball bouncing though...maybe a sign of nerves? He was reading his notes at the change over. Not to be today. I personally don't think Andy is ready for Wimbledon.

Very tough to watch, I support Andy more but I can't dislike Kyle - so I'm happy he got the win and what it means for him and his career.
Interesting that Judy Murray also made a remark about Andy taking 'baby steps' back after his win over Stan. It seemed to me she was dampening expectations about his participation at Wimbledon. It will be interesting to see which of the heart vs head Andy's wins out, but it would seem sensible for him to go back into training now and prepare for the US hard court swing and give the 5 set matches a miss for now. He and Dan can train together.

Some interesting comments by Jamie D in Stu Fraser's comments in The Times on today's schedule:

The good news after Murray's win over Stan Wawrinka on Monday is that physically he is "feeling pretty good", according to Jamie Delgado, his coach.

[...] A fascinating insight was offered by Delgado into Murray's long rehabilitation from hip surgery. It has been a frustrating time for all those who work with him, and so there has been great delight in the coaching box at how well he has performed since making a return at the Queen's Club last week.

"A lot has gone on behind the scenes and Andy has worked so hard just to even compete at these events again," Delgado told the BBC. "It's been so hard and along the way there's been a few setbacks. We've gone away to train a couple of times. We went down to Australia and his hip wasn't in a position where he could practise properly and he could definitely not compete, so there's been some tough moments along the way. To watch him play like this at this time of year so far in his home nation is amazing. He has been incredible in the last year, the way he has applied himself to every single stretch, every single bit of rehab. He has always been like that really, very dedicated to the sport that he loves, and it is one of the reasons why he has done so well."

Delgado admitted that Murray is still not serving at full power, as the troublesome hip is not allowing him to extend fully in his motion, although he is confident that this will eventually improve. In the meantime, the team are doing all they can to ensure that he can play at Wimbledon.

"In terms of wanting to play [at Wimbledon], the percentage mark is 100 per cent," Delgado said. "It's a tournament that is the biggest event of the year. The desire is huge to play there. But honestly we are just going day to day. He has just played his second match, next week is best of five sets. We've got to take his body into consideration, which is the most important thing. Rest assured we are trying our best to get him ready for it."

Sounds as though nobody's going to take any chances, which is good to know.