Week 19 - ATP Masters 1000 - Mutua Madrileña Open - Madrid, Spain (clay)

JonH · All-time great

RE: Week 19 - ATP Masters 1000 - Mutua Madrileña Open - Madrid, Spain (clay)

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH wrote:
indiana wrote:
Cuevas vs Isner is evidently not exactly a clay slog.

7-6(9) 5-4*, not a BP, relatively not many return points ( just 9 by Isner ) and been going a whole 1 hour 16 minutes.
One set all, 7-6 6-7 now! Typical Isner match!

Isner wins 6-7(9) 7-6(3) 7-6(4), never had a BP ( Cuevas had 2 ), managed just 19% (21/108) points on return, served 32 aces ( and just 1 DF ) and proceedings were completed in 2 hours 21 minutes.

I wouldn't pay to watch that ( indeed even if I had not payed I wouldn't be in a hurry! ) but John does what he does and his speciality ( combined with relative lack of ability in other areas ) have taken him a long way in the game. So certainly not his fault.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 10th of May 2018 09:16:28 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Quarter Finals :

(1) Nadal vs (5) Thiem
(Q) Lajovic vs (6) Anderson
Edmund vs Shapovalov
(7) Isner vs (2) Zverev

JonH · All-time great

The last 8 could read like the Cincinnati last 8 to be frank! Nadal v Thiem is a tick for two clay courters but Anderson, Shapo, Isner , hardly what one would expect at this stage.

That said, Edmund can beat Shapo and no reason why Isner couldnt beat the up and down Zverev, so Kyle may well stand a chance here.

Anyone remember Tiger Tim, 2004 French Open!?

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH wrote:
The last 8 could read like the Cincinnati last 8 to be frank! Nadal v Thiem is a tick for two clay courters but Anderson, Shapo, Isner , hardly what one would expect at this stage.

That said, Edmund can beat Shapo and no reason why Isner couldnt beat the up and down Zverev, so Kyle may well stand a chance here.

Anyone remember Tiger Tim, 2004 French Open!?

I think Kyle stands much more chance generally on clay than Cincinnati relatively fast hard courts.

Madrid might be a particularly good combination for him. The ball still holds up once it hits the clay but then his fearhand flies more through the air at altitude.

The big servers can also bang down serves quicker.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Clay is definitely Kyles strongest surface but generally he does better at tournaments other than Madrid, Rome has been better and RG is where up until the AO he had been most successful in Slams. His fearhand has the power it has because he takes a long swing which in turn requires a bit more time, time lost if the ball is travelling faster through the air. At sea level preferably with a bit of moisture in the clay (ref his DC triumph in Serbia) he has more time to unleash it. I feel he has done better here this year as paradoxically his backhand has improved allowing him to go head to head with it and making time and room to unleash the fearhand to maximal effect. Hopefully we will see this improvement pay dividends in Rome and Paris over the next month.

indiana · Tennis legend

Kyle has never played the Madrid Masters before this year so no previous history here to go on and first experience pretty good.

His first clay Masters were last year, and then just Monte Carlo and Rome.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

I dont necessarily disagree that there are advantages to him playing at altitude particularly helping his serve, he served really well in the third set against Novak, just that he has had so much backhand practice it is the improved consistency in it I feel is really helping him here. If he were to still be running around his fearhand at every opportunity altitude would give him less time to do that. When Kyle gets to the business end of a cohort of players and starts to win tournaments it tends to be on clay (60% of the tournaments he has won are on clay). A big step up last year so no championships but he won the Rome Challenger in 2016.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Friday 11th of May 2018 05:40:54 AM

Smudge226 · Strong Club Player

Not convinced the velocity of the ball through the air is the defining characteristic helping Kedders here, same for both players and once it hits the dirt much of the velocity will be scrubbed off in the same way as at sea level.

indiana · Tennis legend

Smudge226 wrote:
Not convinced the velocity of the ball through the air is the defining characteristic helping Kedders here, same for both players and once it hits the dirt much of the velocity will be scrubbed off in the same way as at sea level.

But it will get there quicker ( and presumably with slightly more zip so slightly less hold up ) - result still less time for the opponent than at sea level with the same shot.

Not necessarily saying that it is a particular biggie, not "the defining characteristic" anyway but an element maybe when first time he turns up here he does well. Oakland has put forward such as his improved backland being a real element irrespective of the conditions. It could just be that it's an on-form week for him or any combination. I was really just putting it out there and it is also true as Oakland says that Kyle himself gets slightly less time to prepare. But just saying it makes a big shot a bit bigger. It makes it a kind of faster clay court match. Is that better for Kyle? - maybe.

JonH · All-time great

indiana wrote:
Smudge226 wrote:
Not convinced the velocity of the ball through the air is the defining characteristic helping Kedders here, same for both players and once it hits the dirt much of the velocity will be scrubbed off in the same way as at sea level.
But it will get there quicker ( and presumably with slightly more zip so slightly less hold up ) - result still less time for the opponent than at sea level with the same shot.
Not necessarily saying that it is a particular biggie, not "the defining characteristic" anyway but an element maybe when first time he turns up here he does well. Oakland has put forward such as his improved backland being a real element irrespective of the conditions. It could just be that it's an on-form week for him or any combination. I was really just putting it out there and it is also true as Oakland says that Kyle himself gets slightly less time to prepare. But just saying it makes a big shot a bit bigger. It makes it a kind of faster clay court match. Is that better for Kyle? - maybe.

I guess my original point was that Isner and Anderson and Shapovalov have all made the last 8, hardly known as clay courters, more comfortable on the faster North American hardcourts, so it made me think something must be playing into the faster court players hands to make them all do well this week - it cant be a complete coincidence. Usually it is surface speed or air speed that makes a difference, which is why we often see Miami and IW throw up different results with the differences in humidity etc

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

QF: (2) Bob Bryan & Mike Bryan CR 10 (5+5) defeated (5) Jamie Murray & Bruno Soares (BRA) CR 27 (13+14) by 6-4 6-7(4) [10-7] cry

JonH · All-time great

Whilst disappointing for Jamie, those Bryans have sure come back well. I had them written off not even a few months ago but boy theyve proven to still be a real force.

One more win, and they will go to the top of the Race.

And win the whole tournament and they will go to joint #1 each in the ATP Doubles Rankings. Kudos to the guys.

brendan · Strong Club Player

just noticed this morning that Nadal had broken the record for the most consecutive sets won on a single surface, I was more amazed that the previous holder was McEnroe on clay which seemed totally unsuited to his style of play, but anyway the record is now gone as Thiem takes the first set

JonH · All-time great

brendan wrote:
just noticed this morning that Nadal had broken the record for the most consecutive sets won on a single surface, I was more amazed that the previous holder was McEnroe on clay which seemed totally unsuited to his style of play, but anyway the record is now gone as Thiem takes the first set

Hi Brendan - McEnroes record was in fact on carpet courts not clay, but youre right he did have the record for a single surface!