Team Sky

JonH · All-time great

Team Sky

indiana · Tennis legend

All I know is when you set yourself up from the start as holier than thou and going to show that you can win at cycling the "right way" you sure shouldn't be extending the old "sum of marginal gains" into the at very least dodgy playing with the medications / doping rules. What do we think we can stretch and get away with here? I think there is a difference between pushing the limits on say bike dimensions and medication rules.

Unfortunately foreign gloating at any fall and wish for some in Team Sky to be hung out to dry is entirely understandable.

I wonder how much they set out with the best of intentions and maybe their ethics got very blurred along the way or they were always trying to present themselves as the so different which they weren't but just thought they could be dodgy more efficiently and secretly than those silly foreigners.

Sad ...

JonH · All-time great

Definitely sad. What's saddest is I for one fell for it completely. Maybe not quite illegal but you sum it up well. Faith lost.

JonH · All-time great

...we have the world cycling road championship in Harrogate in 2019, ten days all finishing here and racing round Yorkshire. After the tour de France, which was amazing for our town and area, I hope cycling isn't still haunted by this by then.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Team Sky are the Alberto Salazar of athletics.Using the rulebook, whether it is ethical or not.

This will create animosity and a culture where everyone is trying to prove they are a cheat.(even if they are not)

Strongbow · All-time great

A - Team sky didn't do anything that other teams wern't doing,

B - According to the BBC you are now guilty until proven innocent - except you don't hava a trial.

C - Politicians are professional liars by trade

No real evidence - just heresay - Evo would have had 10 years.

-- Edited by Strongbow on Monday 5th of March 2018 10:41:19 PM

-- Edited by Strongbow on Monday 5th of March 2018 10:42:09 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Was just listening to the Bespoke broadcast on Radio 5 Live.

There was pretty much a universal acceptance by the cycling pundits and recent participant Rob Hayles that Team Sky have at the very least played with the ethical boundaries.

And the general sadness from them too is that that though yes nothing is proven, yes they are only probably only doing what other cycling teams are doing and yes they would probably win a court case if certain allegations were made without parliamentary privilege, Sky made the big thing about being different, being ethical. As was said once or twice "it's a mess".

And while much may not be able to be proved it probably can't be disproved either because Sky admit, as the committee say, that their medical records were very poor ( "appalling" I believe the committee said and that that was ultimately Dave Brailsford's responsibility ). Though Sky say that is in the past and refute other allegations. As the radio broadcast said while the team and Bradley Wiggins may use the word "refute" all they can really do is deny.

In Sky's case merely possibly being just like other teams is a great sadness.

It is looking difficult to see how Dave Brailsford for one can stay in place if any reasonable credibility is to be restored to the Sky Team.

JonH · All-time great

Strongbow wrote:
A - Team sky didn't do anything that other teams wern't doing,
B - According to the BBC you are now guilty until proven innocent - except you don't hava a trial.
C - Politicians are professional liars by trade
No real evidence - just heresay - Evo would have had 10 years.

-- Edited by Strongbow on Monday 5th of March 2018 10:41:19 PM

-- Edited by Strongbow on Monday 5th of March 2018 10:42:09 PM

indi says it all really

Ps don't get me started on seb coe .

-- Edited by JonH on Monday 5th of March 2018 11:07:43 PM

JonH · All-time great

indiana wrote:
Was just listening to the Bespoke broadcast on Radio 5 Live.

There was pretty much a universal acceptance by the cycling pundits and recent participant Rob Hayles that Team Sky have at the very least played with the ethical boundaries.

And the general sadness from them too is that that though yes nothing is proven, yes they are only probably only doing what other cycling teams are doing and yes they would probably win a court case if certain allegations were made without parliamentary privilege, Sky made the big thing about being different, being ethical. As was said once or twice "it's a mess".

And while much may not be able to be proved it probably can't be disproved either because Sky admit, as the committee say, that their medical records were very poor ( "appalling" I believe the committee said and that that was ultimately Dave Brailsford's responsibility ). Though Sky say that is in the past and refute other allegations. As the radio broadcast said while the team and Bradley Wiggins may use the word "refute" all they can really do is deny.

In Sky's case merely possibly being just like other teams is a great sadness.

It is looking difficult to see how Dave Brailsford for one can stay in place if any reasonable credibility is to be restored to the Sky Team.

agreed

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Interesting to hear the story from Brad Wiggins' perspective.

www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/43294639

Sim · County player

It is all very sad as others have said Sky set them selves up to be whiter than white and now the mud is starting to stick.

The issue with Dave Brailsford is that if he resigns then he is basically saying "We were (or I was) guilty" so I can't see that happening, unless someone manages to find a graceful way of moving him on.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Chris Froome......

SMC1809 · All-time great

Didn't this all stem from comments made by Shane Sutton. I wonder what his gripe was?

SuperT · Futures level

I agree that Team Sky has a lot to answer for, and the lack of proper record keeping is a disgrace. However, I have huge sympathy for Bradley Wiggins who seems to be the main one in the firing line although if what the report says were true, there would surely be others implicated too. Whatever happened to "innocent until proved guilty"? As I understand it, the select committee have made strong allegations which the press are printing as facts, without actually producing any evidence to substantiate these claims, and in doing so have totally destroyed the man's reputation. In a court of law it would be up to others to prove that he's guilty rather than him having to prove his innocence.

JonH · All-time great

SMC1809 wrote:
Didn't this all stem from comments made by Shane Sutton. I wonder what his gripe was?

Wasn't Sutton sacked by British Cycling who Brailsford had headed up. Perhaps he felt a general gripe towards GB and Sky (often indivisible so in essence for a while there where the same) cycling and lashed out?

JonH · All-time great

SuperT wrote:
I agree that Team Sky has a lot to answer for, and the lack of proper record keeping is a disgrace. However, I have huge sympathy for Bradley Wiggins who seems to be the main one in the firing line although if what the report says were true, there would surely be others implicated too. Whatever happened to "innocent until proved guilty"? As I understand it, the select committee have made strong allegations which the press are printing as facts, without actually producing any evidence to substantiate these claims, and in doing so have totally destroyed the man's reputation. In a court of law it would be up to others to prove that he's guilty rather than him having to prove his innocence.

Whilst I do tend to agree and cant prove anything, my main issue here was with Sky and Brailsford. In terms of Wiggins, my instinct is to feel he took advantage of the TUE system and if he didnt mean to then he was probably very naive. Froome on the other hand I think knows what he is doing.

In terms of select committee, they have parliamentary privilege and can pretty much say what they like and accuse who they like without any real recourse. Not saying that is right, but that is what it is.