Week 9 - WTA $125K Challenger ($150K) - Indian Wells, CA, USA - Hard

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: Week 9 - WTA $125K Challenger ($150K) - Indian Wells, CA, USA - Hard

blob · All-time great

I could only find stats for some matches, but quite a lot
This covers her 'best' period to date, 2015-18

It's fine margins, and the moving parts affect each other, naturally.
A little less 1st serve in %
A little less 2nd serve won
A few more DF
A little less play on return

Look at the median lines, and the quartile shaded bands to see the easiest takeaway. Lower median means worse performance, larger bands mean less reliability - very broadly speaking.

blob · All-time great

Ugh!
R16: Naomi BROADY/Eva HRDINOVA (GBR/CZE) 1279 (90 + 1189) lost to Caroline DOLEHIDE/Alison RISKE (USA/USA) 253 (119 + 134) 3-6 3-6

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I remember thinking a couple of years ago that Naomi would break the top 50 and be our number 1 before the emergence of Jo, but if you take out her serve she is essentially challenger level and struggling at that level it seems. The serve has certainly became less effective, her main issue I always found in watching her was positioning. On a number of occasions hunching or snatching at shots. If she could sort that the unforced errors would drop.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Know what you mean Jaggy, she often looks quite awkward moving around the court. She is a lovely tall young woman, which obviously helps her serve when it's working but seems to hamper her movement. She reminds me of a teenager who has just had a huge growth spurt and not quite got used to it. In fairness, Venus Williams can look a little clumsy too when moving those great long legs around but is never in the wrong place and left making huge adustments with her hands or body a la Naomi.

indiana · Tennis legend

Naomi won't be anywhere close to sorting out her movement and positioning nor apparently getting her serve back as a consistent weapon without a good coach behind her.

Michael D · All-time great

indiana wrote:
Naomi won't be anywhere close to sorting out her movement and positioning nor apparently getting her serve back as a consistent weapon without a good coach behind her.

Yes, her brief spurt was with Fitzy and her relapse back into old ways was once he left. She may feel it is hard for her to afford a travelling coach again, but without some more systematic advice she won't be moving her ranking back up any time soon. Fitzy himself remarked that her self-taught style meant that she has many ingrained habits that are hard to change, which is why he focused on making her big strengths - her serve and forehand - as big weapons as possible, knowing that it would be a longer haul to address her weaknesses, especially her movement, positioning, and erratic backhand. I'd love to see Naomi progressing back up again into the top 100, but without an appropriate coach it's not going to happen.

blob · All-time great

Naomi's serve isn't the thing that's deteriorated (well, second has a little), it's her play on return that's now letting her down compared to her peak.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I've never seen a match, ever, where Naomi's returns have been anything other than woeful/pretty poor.

blob · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
I've never seen a match, ever, where Naomi's returns have been anything other than woeful/pretty poor.

That's a pretty fair assessment.
At her peak, they were merely, 'dreadful' but enough to, say, be allowing her some play once a set on a service game. Now they're atrocious again, as they were 6-7 years ago.
Her own serve is then asked to do too much, and even if it does all that work, you're looking to, best case scenario, probably win 2/3 TB every time. That's a tough ask.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I seem to recall a match where Naomi missed about every return and lost to Sabrina Bamburac about 5 years ago which is almost like me beating Andy Murray....

scottie1 · Futures level

Jaggy1876 wrote:
I seem to recall a match where Naomi missed about every return and lost to Sabrina Bamburac about 5 years ago which is almost like me beating Andy Murray....

that was in Edinburgh on clay on a cold early May day it was freezing and I think Naomi was too cold to compete ! Did Sabrina ever beat anyone else?

blob · All-time great

scottie1 wrote:
Jaggy1876 wrote:
I seem to recall a match where Naomi missed about every return and lost to Sabrina Bamburac about 5 years ago which is almost like me beating Andy Murray....
that was in Edinburgh on clay on a cold early May day it was freezing and I think Naomi was too cold to compete ! Did Sabrina ever beat anyone else?

How soon we forget that Sabrina once beat a young Mladenovic.
She also beat Eden Sliva

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Mladenovic is one of those enigmas as well I saw her play very well in the flesh at French Open a few years back, would never have believed she also lost to Sabrina though. An Alan Mackin beating Nadal scenario.

flamingowings · All-time great

Peter too wrote:
R1: BROADY, Naomi (GBR) Q 128 v ANISIMOVA, Amanda (USA) Q 175 CH=174 29/1/18, 16yo JCH=2

Amanda Anisimova defeats Caroline Dolehide 63 63 to reach her first ever WTA SF. With that win, Amanda also clinched a WC into Indian Wells (main draw tournament)