Week 44 - ATP Masters 1000 - Paris, France (hard)

Vandenburg · Futures level

Week 44 - ATP Masters 1000 - Paris, France (hard)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Vandenburg wrote:
Kyle has no clutch play at all.

confuse

Spectator · All-time great

Hmmm. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I am a huge fan of Cameron Norrie, think he has made brilliant decisions and amazing progress, and hope that he will indeed get the chance to play on the big stages next year. But he's not playing top 30 players in the Masters Series right now, and he hasn't reached two ATP semifinals this year, with 8 wins this year over top 50 players and 19 over people in the top 100.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Mr Norrie do that - or more - next year. And I'm not suggesting Mr Edmund doesn't have work to do (as he said in the article cited earlier, he knows he loses too many close matches). But he's the 6th highest ranked U23, having played an exceptionally difficult schedule this year. I agree with those who'd like to see him pick a few easier tournaments and give himself more chances of having long, good runs. And I hope he does manage to resolve the issues, whatever they may be, that hurt him in close situations. But I'm also very conscious that he's doing exceptionally well in his quiet and understated way ... maybe too easy to take for granted?

At any rate, would love to see a real back and forth for number two (or one) - preferably at ever higher levels - in the years to come!

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

QF: (5) Jamie Murray & Bruno Soares (BRA) CR 21 (10+11) vs (4) Pierre-Hugues Herbert & Nicolas Mahut (FRA/FRA) CR 12 (7+5)

That one's going to be interesting...

Spectator · All-time great

They often bring out the best in each other as teams - could be quite a lot of fun.

Mahut is having a very good singles tournament, too, which means he's playing quite a few matches and might have an effect. (A quick hurrah, while we're on the topic of les Frenchies, for Julien Benneteau, in his last Paris Masters, happily still going in both singles and doubles. His singles victories have been over Shapovalov and Tsonga, too. Not at all bad)

-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 1st of November 2017 11:20:15 PM

Jan · Hall of fame

I had to go out just as Kyle's final set TB was starting. Sad to see the result when I got back. What a chance he had.

Mervatron2 · Challenger qualifying

Quite indicative of Kyle's year. Shoulda, coulda, woulda

Michael D · All-time great

This was incredibly disappointing from Kyle. I last looked at the score at *4-1 in the 3rd, when I had to go out, and thought that was the match in the bag. I couldn't believe the score when I looked later. What on earth did he do, especially as he went 5-1 up. Sock might have served better after his MTO, but that also means that Kyle served twice for the match and failed with both. He has to learn to shut the door, and hope his new coaching team help him with that.

flamingowings · All-time great

I wonder if the MTO played a part in it.

hoots · Intermediate Club Player

I wonder how Kyle feels seeing Sock beat Pouille in straight sets today.

indiana · Tennis legend

hoots wrote:
I wonder how Kyle feels seeing Sock beat Pouille in straight sets today.

Still no doubt extremely disappointed about losing yesterday although I wouldn't be going down the if if scenario other than obviously if he had won he would have had a shot at it today.

Spectator · All-time great

No idea how Mr Edmund feels ... but I'd guess David Goffin feels fairly happy! Sorry for Pouille, who seems a good egg, but congratulations to Goffin on qualifying (thanks to Pouille's loss - and, of course, his own fine year) for the O2. And congratulations to Julien Benneteau, who beat Goffin ... and who is finishing his Paris career in grand style.

christ · Futures level

Vandenburg wrote:
Kyle has no clutch play at all. Very poor. Cam is the true British number 2.

You may wish to peek at the Charlottesville thread.

indiana · Tennis legend

An interesting and loaded doubles QFs :

(1) Kontinen & Peers vs (7) Dodig & Granollers
(3) Bryan & Bryan vs (6) Rojer & Tecau
(5) Murray & Soares vs (4) Herbert & Mahut
Lopez & Lopez vs (2) Kubot & Melo

A couple of things come to mind looking at that :

1) This week is clearly an extreme example, but like doubles or not on the whole many of the same players have been at or near the top for quite some time and collected most of the big prizes so it is sure very far from random. Though I am sure I am far from alone in never really 'getting' that one. Some more random elements ( few sports aren't a bit random ), in particular in places re scoring, do not make things anything like as random as has at times been suggested.

2) The relative longevity of these 8 pairs plus also (8) Klaasen and Ram, defeated by Lopez & Lopez in the L16. Kubot & Melo and Dodig & Granollers are the only two essentially new pairs for the current season. Three more in Kontinen & Peers, Murray & Soares & Lopez & Lopez are from the start of last year. Klaasen & Ram are from mid 2015. Rojer & Tecau and Herbert & Mahut are from early and late 2014 respectively. And the Bryans for ever and a day. So while apart from the Bryans all were essentially formed within the last four years there has been very little recent top level churning. Whether that will change going into next year we will see,

Spectator · All-time great

Mahut is injured - having an MRI last night - so may well pull out, with both the O2 and (I suspect more crucially) the Davis Cup finals still on the radar.

More generally, thanks, Indiana, for pulling that information into a single post. Yes, I agree: the top doubles players really are top doubles players. Their victories aren't random at all, despite the no-ad scoring and MTBs (helped, of course, by the fact that the Grand Slams, with their enormous points hauls, have more conventional scoring systems of various varieties ... and by the points on offer at the Tour Finals). In terms of longevity, I think the benefits of mutual commitment over a long-ish period are fairly clear: teams that have stayed together through downs often then go on to some rather lovely ups. Several of the teams above have had fallow periods at one point or another recently: Mahut and Herbert have had quite a rocky year at times ... but won three Masters and reached the finals of a fourth. And I'd really wondered about Rojer and Tecau ... and then they beat everyone in sight to win the US Open.