The LTA

emmsie69 · Top national player

RE: The LTA

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Updated letter from LTA CEO, Scott Lloyd

Would be good if inclusion and diversity improved at the 'top' of this predominantly middle class, white male dominated board

"This week is National Inclusion Week, and also marks the start of Black History Month. That in itself is something the LTA has not previously acknowledged in the same way we have other similar national and international moments, but for the first time this year we will be utilising our channels to shine a spotlight on it. This week also provides an opportunity for me to follow up on my original open letter, and outline what our next steps are in our work to tackle the impacts of any racial and wider discrimination on our sport."

www.lta.org.uk/about-us/tennis-news/news-and-opinion/general-news/2020/october/an-open-letter-update-from-lta-ceo-scott-lloyd/

emmsie69 · Top national player

Elegant Point wrote:

Updated letter from LTA CEO, Scott Lloyd

Would be good if inclusion and diversity improved at the 'top' of this predominantly middle class, white male dominated board

"This week is National Inclusion Week, and also marks the start of Black History Month. That in itself is something the LTA has not previously acknowledged in the same way we have other similar national and international moments, but for the first time this year we will be utilising our channels to shine a spotlight on it. This week also provides an opportunity for me to follow up on my original open letter, and outline what our next steps are in our work to tackle the impacts of any racial and wider discrimination on our sport."

www.lta.org.uk/about-us/tennis-news/news-and-opinion/general-news/2020/october/an-open-letter-update-from-lta-ceo-scott-lloyd/

Have you actually gone to junior tennis tournaments, my son runs them in South London and if anything there are less white middle class children there than BAME and Eastern Europeans. I genuinely think there are a lot of people commenting about this that are using old stereotypes rather than facts about what is going on. As to the indoor issue, tennis is an outdoor sport and plenty of other sports seem to manage to play outside all winter. There is no real discernable difference to how many coaching days are lost to bad weather in the winter compared to the summer, atleast down south but I accept that may be different the further north people are. A good coach will structure the lesson to compensate for the weather so if it's cold the children will work on something that will keep them moving There is also this https://www.lta.org.uk/play-compete/lta-youth/tennis-for-kids/ to encourage children to try tennis.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Having been part of the committee for youth tennis for a big region of France (and president of youth tennis for a county), I don't agree that outdoors tennis works in winter.

Yes, you can do activities that keep the kids warm, and yes, there are certain crossover skills from activities that are useful.

But you can't play tennis if the courts are slippery. And hard courts get slippery very fast.

So it's hardly the same as saying 'other sports' keep going outside - football and hockey and athletics etc work fine because the surface they use is usable in damp conditions. Tennis balls can get damp, it's not perfect, but it's not the end of the world. But slippery courts are dangerous and all tennis teaching should be based round movement, which is just not possible when it's wet.

If the UK had more all-weather courts, that might make a difference. But they don't.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
On the broader scale, the problem is that the LTA has not created a tennis industry that allows people to thrive in tennis outside of the LTA (except for a few very well-off people).

So the LTA is narrow-minded and heavily invested in supporting itself, each coach wanting his few protégés to be selected for extra training, european tours etc, in order to re-affirm his/her position as coach of one of the top players.

BUT, worse, there is no club system or extensive tournament system, or serious level tennis sports university system that allows players to take an alternative path.

So the LTA have it sewn up, every which way
I don't recognise this as being anywhere close to what I have personally experienced.

I called the LTA in 2013 to ask where I could play in a local competition, that was a proper match. Ideally, I would have liked it to be a ranking point match but I could have been flexible on that one. Happy to pay to enter, obviously. Happy to travel. There were no events at all, in London or the surrounding areas, in the following 6 months. None. So absolutely nowhere for me to play a match of tennis.

Where is the tennis system there?

Elegant Point · Satellite level

emmsie69 wrote:
Elegant Point wrote:

Updated letter from LTA CEO, Scott Lloyd

Would be good if inclusion and diversity improved at the 'top' of this predominantly middle class, white male dominated board

"This week is National Inclusion Week, and also marks the start of Black History Month. That in itself is something the LTA has not previously acknowledged in the same way we have other similar national and international moments, but for the first time this year we will be utilising our channels to shine a spotlight on it. This week also provides an opportunity for me to follow up on my original open letter, and outline what our next steps are in our work to tackle the impacts of any racial and wider discrimination on our sport."

www.lta.org.uk/about-us/tennis-news/news-and-opinion/general-news/2020/october/an-open-letter-update-from-lta-ceo-scott-lloyd/
Have you actually gone to junior tennis tournaments, my son runs them in South London and if anything there are less white middle class children there than BAME and Eastern Europeans. I genuinely think there are a lot of people commenting about this that are using old stereotypes rather than facts about what is going on. As to the indoor issue, tennis is an outdoor sport and plenty of other sports seem to manage to play outside all winter. There is no real discernable difference to how many coaching days are lost to bad weather in the winter compared to the summer, atleast down south but I accept that may be different the further north people are. A good coach will structure the lesson to compensate for the weather so if it's cold the children will work on something that will keep them moving There is also this https://www.lta.org.uk/play-compete/lta-youth/tennis-for-kids/ to encourage children to try tennis.

Thank you for taking time to respond, I am not completely sure your reply reflects my specific post, but always interesting to hear different points of view. I was commenting on the lack of diversity on the LTA board.......there is currently no BAME representative on the LTA board, fact.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/26/wimbledon-bame-white-boardroom-level-12901858/

Yes, I have attended many junior tennis tournaments. I spent many years traveling around the country to tennis tournaments ranging in level from matchplays to grade 1. My son competed at National level from aged 11, plays for the county and is currently at a Division 1 university in the USA.

The following is a quote from a study seeking to understand British lack of success:

The class system has had an enduring effect on British culture and British sport, including tennis. Tennis was originally played on the lawns of private homes and at members-only clubs, giving the sport an elitist image, the remnants of which can still be seen in aspects of British tennis today.

From personal experience, I would say at National level, the vast majority of children come from very affluent backgrounds and attend private school at a level higher than the national average (7% of children attend private schools).

https://www.heron-tennis.co.uk/ace-academy/coaching-tips/explaining-the-lack-of-international-success-in-british-tennis

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/48745093 Comments on elitism in many British sports.

-- Edited by Elegant Point on Saturday 3rd of October 2020 10:09:24 AM

emmsie69 · Top national player

Coup Droit wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
On the broader scale, the problem is that the LTA has not created a tennis industry that allows people to thrive in tennis outside of the LTA (except for a few very well-off people).

So the LTA is narrow-minded and heavily invested in supporting itself, each coach wanting his few protégés to be selected for extra training, european tours etc, in order to re-affirm his/her position as coach of one of the top players.

BUT, worse, there is no club system or extensive tournament system, or serious level tennis sports university system that allows players to take an alternative path.

So the LTA have it sewn up, every which way
I don't recognise this as being anywhere close to what I have personally experienced.
I called the LTA in 2013 to ask where I could play in a local competition, that was a proper match. Ideally, I would have liked it to be a ranking point match but I could have been flexible on that one. Happy to pay to enter, obviously. Happy to travel. There were no events at all, in London or the surrounding areas, in the following 6 months. None. So absolutely nowhere for me to play a match of tennis.
Where is the tennis system there?

https://www.tennisuk.net/TEMS/default.aspx This guy has been runniing tournaments every weekend and a lot midweek aswell since atleast 2003 and probably earlier (just checked and 1990 but I have personal experience from about 2003) The LTA website is most certainly poor but I am at a total loss as to why whoever you spoke to didn't point you towards David as he is very well known and AFAIK developed the tournament software that is used by the LTA.

ETA there are usually way more tournaments running but Covid is having an impact.

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Saturday 3rd of October 2020 10:57:13 AM

Elegant Point · Satellite level

emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
On the broader scale, the problem is that the LTA has not created a tennis industry that allows people to thrive in tennis outside of the LTA (except for a few very well-off people).

So the LTA is narrow-minded and heavily invested in supporting itself, each coach wanting his few protégés to be selected for extra training, european tours etc, in order to re-affirm his/her position as coach of one of the top players.

BUT, worse, there is no club system or extensive tournament system, or serious level tennis sports university system that allows players to take an alternative path.

So the LTA have it sewn up, every which way
I don't recognise this as being anywhere close to what I have personally experienced.
I called the LTA in 2013 to ask where I could play in a local competition, that was a proper match. Ideally, I would have liked it to be a ranking point match but I could have been flexible on that one. Happy to pay to enter, obviously. Happy to travel. There were no events at all, in London or the surrounding areas, in the following 6 months. None. So absolutely nowhere for me to play a match of tennis.
Where is the tennis system there?
https://www.tennisuk.net/TEMS/default.aspx This guy has been runniing tournaments every weekend and a lot midweek aswell since atleast 2003 and probably earlier (just checked and 1990 but I have personal experience from about 2003) The LTA website is most certainly poor but I am at a total loss as to why whoever you spoke to didn't point you towards David as he is very well known and AFAIK developed the tournament software that is used by the LTA.
ETA there are usually way more tournaments running but Covid is having an impact.

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Saturday 3rd of October 2020 10:57:13 AM

E69 said " The LTA website is most certainly poor but I am at a total loss as to why whoever you spoke to didn't point you towards David as he is very well known and AFAIK developed the tournament software that is used by the LTA. "

tennisuk is not run by the LTA, why would you expect their staff promote it? Which I think brings us full circle back to CD's point 'On the broader scale, the problem is that the LTA has not created a tennis industry that allows people to thrive in tennis outside of the LTA (except for a few very well-off people).'

Toby · Lower Club Player

The LTA seem to have upset Southwark tennis Centre, a very multicultural tennis environment

https://www.facebook.com/southwarkcitytennisclub

Latest rebranding by Lawn Tennis Association. However, I would challenge the LTA to identify their most significant contribution to supporting the growth of tennis in the London Borough of Southwark since 2010? What monetary value would they place on this support?

Sad thing is, despite the glossy rebrand, if the same question were asked in 2023 after the delivery of this strategy the likely answer would be identical.

Tennis is not for Everybody https://buff.ly/2unpP2N and LTA video Tennis is for Everybody https://buff.ly/2FnwpLN which is more authentic?

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

The LTA "worked with" (aka paid a lot of money to) a leading kids agency on a re-brand for their products for junior players.

The new overarching brand for all these products is now called "LTA Youth"

Mini tennis is being replaced by LTA Youth Red, LTA Youth Green etc

Tennis for kids is now being called LTA Youth Start

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

So you pay a lot of money to an agency who come up with the name 'LTA Youth' ???

Inspired......

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Yep abysmal. They also have Deloitte, who typically charge a minimum of £1500 per day for a junior consultant (fresh out of uni), working with them on replacing their competition systems. That project has been a disaster and is helping alienate all the tournament organisers up and down the country, who can't work out how to publish their tournaments for entries each week.

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

The one that gets me the most though, is LTA Youth Start, replacing Tennis for Kids.

Imagine a group of school mums, ask them what tennis for kids is? Now ask them what LTA Youth Start is? I would imagine an average of 0 out of 10 of them wouldn't know what LTA stands for, therefore LTA Youth Start...would sound like some type of strange youth club...nothing to do with tennis.

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Born2WinTennis wrote:
The one that gets me the most though, is LTA Youth Start, replacing Tennis for Kids.

Imagine a group of school mums, ask them what tennis for kids is? Now ask them what LTA Youth Start is? I would imagine an average of 0 out of 10 of them wouldn't know what LTA stands for, therefore LTA Youth Start...would sound like some type of strange youth club...nothing to do with tennis.

Lol - What's in a name? Same old LTA hmm Money better spent spent on encouraging more children to play tennis, making it more affordable and ensuring girls stay in the sport longer etc

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Is it just me, or is the LTAs Twiter account a lot more active these days in terms of results and other random / fun things related to the players? I wonder if they've got someone new in to run it, or just a general decision to use it more?