Week 37 - ITF ($15K) - Hammamet, Tunisia, Clay

blob · All-time great

Week 37 - ITF ($15K) - Hammamet, Tunisia, Clay

paulisi · Tennis legend

If my maths is right, that win has taken her up to 20pts and a ranking in the low 800's

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Fran has beaten the junior French open champion who dealt comfortably with the winner of the Eddie Herr (Carle, Frans doubles partner at RG juniors). I don't think Fran has been chasing a junior rank particularly and even at not quite turned 17 appears already focused on transition although I have only seen her play once and have never seen the Russian, I would say they are closely matched, mentally in terms of triumphing over adversity Fran has few peers. Very impressed by how quickly she learnt to beat Emily.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Friday 15th of September 2017 01:03:51 PM

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Friday 15th of September 2017 01:06:30 PM

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Friday 15th of September 2017 03:42:42 PM

Michael D · All-time great

paulisi wrote:
If my maths is right, that win has taken her up to 20pts and a ranking in the low 800's

18 points so far. Starting from a base of 7 + 7 as last week's losing finalist + 4 so far this week for reaching the SF.

If Fran is not injured I will back her to win tomorrow, but wouldn't be at all surprised if she is feeling the strain of the last 12 days at this point. I would certainly expect a close match at least, all being well.

-- Edited by Michael D on Friday 15th of September 2017 03:36:55 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Does anyone else think the point system here seems out of kilter???

Fran is in the semis of a 15k and gets 4 points.

Katie Swan is in the semis of a 25k and gets 18 points.

Is a 25k meant to be four and a half times more difficult that a 25k????

Doesn't make sense to me....

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Well done to them both, the way I see it is that the 15Ks are purely there for young players to establish whether or not they have the skill set to advance from juniors and make a serious stab at professional tennis, the entry level being winning through 25k qualifying. So it's much more about winning tournaments to show you are at the level to step up rather than the points. A big points differential stops loitering for years at a level from which you are never going to progress.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Saturday 16th of September 2017 07:42:28 AM

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Saturday 16th of September 2017 07:45:34 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Does anyone else think the point system here seems out of kilter???

Fran is in the semis of a 15k and gets 4 points.

Katie Swan is in the semis of a 25k and gets 18 points.

Is a 25k meant to be four and a half times more difficult that a 25k????

Doesn't make sense to me....

Yes, I've commented before that it's very out of line. The 10Ks and 25Ks were already out of line a bit. But when they replaced 10Ks with 15Ks to have the two lowest value events 15Ks and 25Ks as with the men, keeping the original 10K points system for the 15Ks, and also upping the values of the higher events, 50Ks to 60Ks etc ( again keeping the same points systems ) it does now look very silly. It's as if no-one could be bothered to address that a new points system or two was really needed. The 25Ks in particular are either very generous for points against prize money or very ungenerous for prize money vs points depending on how you look at it ( can't help schedule choices ) and they could have maybe pushed up the 15K points a bit.

The men kept their same points systems but since they were pushing up the values of both their previous lowest value events, 10Ks to 15Ks and 15Ks to 25Ks ( and they seemed better alligned to start with ) they haven't really created / exacerbated such anomalies.

As I say it strikes me as a strange laziness in not addressing how arguably already out of line points systems became even more so with the prize money changes. Although the lower value events are ITF events I assume the WTA is responsible for all the points systems for the women all the way through from 15Ks to Slams, so it was for them to react, but I'm never very sure about their priorities, maybe especially regarding points for lower beings !

Michael D · All-time great

For some strange reason a 15k + H tournament is clearly seen in the ranking points listings as half way between a 15k and a 25k tournament eg 9 points for a semi final win. But firstly they are almost never played, and secondly, it doesn't make sense for a tournament that still has 15k prize money to have suddenly double the points. The WTA/ ITF do need to do a more thorough rethink here. Even if Oakland's reasoning has a point to it, the men's ranking points make much more sense than the women's.

indiana · Tennis legend

I think the women's 25Ks used to be regarded as a sort of lowest level challenger hence perhaps the significant points difference against the 10K 'starter' / futures event.

But when it was decided for whatever reasons that both the men and women would have 15Ks and 25Ks, with all wonen's existing ITFs upping in monetary value apart from the 25Ks, they could be seen to be maybe effectively downgrading the 25Ks to more a second futures ( ignoring the +Hs for now ), but it retained its points scale.

While yes increasing the women's 10K points a bit wouldn't go amiss the most out of line in the whole series is the 25Ks - too high. So do the powers that be see it as some major problem to actually bring down a points series given they've effectively downgraded it? confuse - or again can they just not be fussed?

Jaffa · Challenger level

Imo if they went back to
1/2/6/10/18 like the men that would be a lot better.

blob · All-time great

Difficult start for Fran, *1-4

Michael D · All-time great

Fran's SF match is starting now. I am not sure she is fully fit. Her serving stats are way down on her previous matches. Down *1-4 on score, but only 37.5% first serves in now and only 1/10 second serve points won so far. In previous matches this has been a strength for her. Maybe Varvara is a wonderful returner, but there seems a problem to me. 5 DFs too....At least Fran has now served a few first serves and won her first service game. So 2-4* now.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Fran has indeed retired. Shame. Might well be something in Etienne's theory. Either way, she's played a lot of competitive tennis these past few weeks. Always best to be careful.

Get better soon, Fran.

Michael D · All-time great

Yes, she's not on the entry lists for a few weeks, so I hope this is mainly precautionary, given her number of matches in the past fortnight and she recovers soon. Cumulatively these two weeks should be worth around 400 ranking positions to her so that at least should provide a good boost to her.

Peter too · Tennis legend

The large difference in points between 15K and 25K must make it hard for the girls to make that transition. A barrier to progress can't be good, you really need a smooth transition between the top end of the 15Ks and lower end of 25Ks.