Week 34 - ITF ($25K) - Tsukuba, Japan Hard

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Week 34 - ITF ($25K) - Tsukuba, Japan Hard

Nix · Futures level

Interesting points. I also wonder whether a good all round game is enough to get you a solid ranking in juniors, whereas in seniors you need something more - great athleticism, a fantastic serve, a spectacular forehand. Just something that differentiates you and is difficult for your opponent to combat.

On the serve though, particularly on the women's side, I feel it's underdeveloped. Many of our players, Tara, Laura, even Heather and Naomi seem to break down when under pressure.

blob · All-time great

On the mens side, there has been some research into this generally. e.g. www.tennisicoach.com/media/114083/114083.pdf (pp. 11-13)
That's not specific to a country comparison, or the womens side, which is the point I was making really; Katy having been the inception.

The evidence CD produces, shows a mens picture, and it would be interesting to look on the womens side for the variation, and for a few different years in order to establish some benchmark. To which end, time permitting, I may cursorily attend later today (I like this sentence, with it's 19th century structure!). It would help if the historical Junior rankings were readily available.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

You're right, blob, it was Katy who started this off so it's the women's side that's more pertinent to the discussion (although the boys is important too overall of course). But I don't think the women's side is very much different, blob, although it's true that girls' junior results do tend to mirror adult results better, partly because their physique changes less from age 17 onwards.
But you have exactly the same mathematical impossibility problem.
So, taking the same year, as comparison, the top 10 girls - with adult CHs - are:

Urz. Radwanska - CH 29
Pavlyuchenkova - CH 13
Kucova - CH 71
Oudin - CH 31
Pivovarova - CH 93
Pervak - CH 37
Nara - CH 32
Lykina - CH 171
Hofmanova - CH 161
Brengle - CH 35

So, it corresponds better with the top 50 than the boy's one does. But there's still 4 out of 10 of the top ten juniors who never made the top 50.

LordBrownof · Futures level

CD - how do you find these historical junior ranking lists?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

www.itftennis.com/juniors/rankings/year-end-rankings.aspx

On the ITF site, under ITF Circuits (top left), go to Juniors. Then, under Rankings, you'll find 'year-end rankings'.

It goes back to 2004 when they started the Combined Ranking.

(It's only year-end, of course, so there's tons of other top 15 players throughout the year, but it gives a good snapshot)

wimdledont · Challenger level

Historical JR lists...

www.itftennis.com/juniors/rankings/year-end-rankings.aspx

The Junior rankings can be very flattering to our girls. At present, for example, Ms Appleton has a ranking based on her best 12 results from 32 (singles and doubles combined); but still trails several players above her, based on their best 12 results from 8.

www.itftennis.com/juniors/rankings/rankings-list/players.aspx

It seems likely to me that the LTA apparatchiks are happier to find the resources to support Junior players, who must often need escorting around the globe by LTA apparatchiks, than to find ways to support the same players when they reach the lower rungs of the pro circuit; when there would be a danger that any monies received by the players would not necessarily end up in the LTA apparatchiks' pockets.

Also, the best Juniors give up early. The best Juniors in the world at present are almost certainly Bellis and Vondrousova, both still Juniors, and both WTA top 100.