Week 34 - ATP 250 - Winston-Salem Open - Winston-Salem, NC (hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

Week 34 - ATP 250 - Winston-Salem Open - Winston-Salem, NC (hard)

Oakland2002 · All-time great

No you've got it all wrong. It's all challenger tennis 75% of the players in a slam by definition are challenger players, surely not a high enough quality field to be called anything other than a challenger. By playing in such challenger quality tournaments the top 32 redefine themselves as challenger players.

There is therefore no such thing as the ATP tour, fourtuately for all these challenger players they are rewarded in such a way in some tournaments that the association of tennis professionals have applied their name to it as a prefix to the total amount of prize money awarded in $1000 hence the term ATP250. Some players are so good that they play exclusively ATP branded events, you could call them a cohort, but mark my words they are all challenger players.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:34:26 AM

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Good to see a sense of humour on the board, I did enjoy that last post Oakland.

The definition of a tournament or grading isn't really an issue. I'm not saying these players deserve any less prize money incidentally, it's just a guide to the chances of success in a tournament.

Speaking seriously though as said before ATP events the week before Slams can be taken with a pinch of salt especially in light of the number of injured players we have on the tour at the moment.

If you look at the players ranked 40-100 the majority will be never be ranked top 16 and it's pretty much always been that way.

Anyway let's move on, hopefully Kyle can come through a win here would help him break this first ceiling.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Coup Droit wrote:
This 'challenger' thing is all a bit lost on me.

If the seeds in a Grand Slam are Slam players (and surely, in linguistic terms, they must be, as they're seeded, so how could they not...).

And all the players after 32 are supposedly challenger players, then who are the ATP players? Is there some black hole?

(Unless, only the top 10 are 'true' Slam players. And 11 - 32 are ATP players. But then you've got a Slam draw of 128 with only 10 'Slam players', which makes no sense).

Anyway, names, and roses, and Shakespeare and all that......

Well a Slam is the pinnacle the FA Cups of the season and think of how many teams start in that. (Actually probably not a good example these days given the current attitude towards cups in England.)

Who was the last player outside the top 10 in a men's Slam to win one? Ivanisevic as a WC aside?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, but surely you don't have to actually win a Slam in order to be a Slam player?

It's all semantics (and people are probably bored witless but hey

) but someone can be a Slam level player without being a strong contender for winning the damn thing.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Of course they can 220 odd players roughly in a Slam. That's obvious surely? There are not 220 odd Slam contenders for the title naturally. Top end of the tournament is where the contenders are obviously. I'm failing to see where we are here with this CD. Rankings are pretty clear as well. Even I'm bored now

LordBrownof · Futures level

Jaggy1876 wrote:
Good to see a sense of humour on the board, I did enjoy that last post Oakland.

The definition of a tournament or grading isn't really an issue. I'm not saying these players deserve any less prize money incidentally, it's just a guide to the chances of success in a tournament.

Speaking seriously though as said before ATP events the week before Slams can be taken with a pinch of salt especially in light of the number of injured players we have on the tour at the moment.

If you look at the players ranked 40-100 the majority will be never be ranked top 16 and it's pretty much always been that way.

Anyway let's move on, hopefully Kyle can come through a win here would help him break this first ceiling.

Yes please Jaggy, let's move on. If you hadn't noticed, the desire to move on from saying everyone ranked between 32-100 is a challenger player is why you were getting the snarky responses! :)

Kyle is doing a fab job this week - getting in lots of matches against players who he, providing he gets a decent draw, may well face in the first couple of rounds of the US Open. And let's face it, whatever the strength of the tournament (something statisticians don't worry about when reviewing careers), winning this tournament would be absolutely fantastic.

Best of luck to him against Stevie Johnson today.

Mervatron2 · Challenger qualifying

Good week for Kyle so far, hopefully it will continue.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

The only downside from winning this tournament would be that Kyle would go into the US Open on the back of 8 matches in 8 days. I know he wanted to get some matches under his belt, but that might be overdoing it a bit. Not that you'll find me complaining though.

Jaffa · Challenger level

100 points for a final win is better than 80 in 2 rounds of a slam...

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Jaffa wrote:
100 points for a final win is better than 80 in 2 rounds of a slam...

Not to mention the confidence it would give him.

indiana · Tennis legend

As I mentioned before great to get in his points defence early. 250 points for the title or even 150 runner up points rather nice to bank before his last year's 180 US Open points ever come off. Would kind of turn the US Open into potential further points rather than the more negative 'defending' points in addition to indeed surely going in with added confidence.

Probably wouldn't mind though being in the Tuesday start side of the US Open draw.

the addict · Tennis legend

Kyle might not be matching Johnson for aces, but his serve is still pretty potent. 5-5*

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Kyle will have to produce another of his 3 set comebacks as Johnson takes the 1st 7-5

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

While Johnson is only serving 42% on first serve, Kyle has yet to take a point of any 1st serve that has gone in. Johnson is 14/14 on that stat, with 10 of them aces.