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Post Info TOPIC: UTR Tennis Tournaments (in Britain or with British Players)


Tennis legend

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RE: UTR Tennis Tournaments (in Britain)


TennisMom wrote:

Sorry I meant all FFT matches, not just club. I dont think they are part of UTR Calculation.

ITF & Tennis Europe ones held in France, definitely, are counted.

UTR is now really what US coaches are looking at. They are not really interested in LTA ratings for a Brit. Thats what the US coaches have been asking about.


I'm not at all surprised that the LTA ratings are not used - they are very flimsy in comparison to the European ones.

But I did just check the page of another French kid I know who is going this year and he doesn't have a UTR rating either. 

My guess is that the UTR is nowhere near as necessary if you've a German or French rating. 

At least there are now UTR events to play in Britain, though, I guess, if you've got to go via that route. And probably quite fun too. 

 



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Tennis legend

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Don't all the LTA events ( such as there are ) feed into the UTR ratings ?

I seem to recall reading that the LTA didn't initially come on board but pretty much did so later ?



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Social player

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Yes, they do.

All LTA from 12u onwards all count towards your UTR. 

 

 

 

 



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All-time great

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Kolohead wrote:

Hi interesting and something have never really considered. Lad is a 2.1 at mo. Pm me if you have any knowledge of clubs a ferry ride away as it is certainly something to consider thanks very much for the insight


I see you have mentioned your son potentially having a year off before going to college, what a great opportunity to play join a club and play some tennis in France, an opportunity not open to many and probably (although maybe not) a much more valuable life experience than 6 months working in a supermarket followed by 3 months drinking booze on a Pacific Island and a quick shimmy up the Inca trail. I recall a post about Evan Hoyt playing tennis on a family camping trip (I think it was a BiS exclusive report 2-3 years back). 



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Very interesting to see the enormous drop in the value of Facebook last week, a direct consequence of data harvesting without consent. UTR powered by Oracle is perhaps a product generated in the same way. I think that drop in value has quantified the fiscal value of one of the biggest systematic abuses of the rights of individuals of our time and gives one a clear understanding of the massive value of data.

It is heart breaking to see how successful UT have been in effectively devaluing in the eyes of college coaches the ratings presently available and it is utilising this hook they plan to control and monetarise the bussiness of competitive tennis in the U.K. and similar markets.

GB players bring enormous value to US college tennis as part of an international Tennis cohort that raise the general standard to a level that makes power conference Tennis relevant to professional Tennis.

A number of programmes have developed their reputations by recruiting a core of Brits; Memphis and Drake have had a very symbiotic relationship with British Tennis products. In reality the best value for college recruiters is in those very able players with a multi sport back ground and genuine athletism who have hidden potential as they have not been intensively coached, it is that and an element of conditioning that they have to offer. The exclusive use of UTR is a mistake, will actually give an increased advantages to colleges who recruit intelligently ie. understand the various metrics and where they can add value. Interestingly the NFL relies strongly on the combine and measures of athleticism against historical metrics for a number of tests, some very good and may I add very bad decisions are made accordingly.

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Satellite level

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UTR already impacting LTA Nationals - take a look at the entry list for this weeks G2 at Bath;

many of the players who can still play 18U but are hoping to head to college in the US won't play 18U Nationals because they will meet too many players with a low UTR. There are 2-3 players in the top 25 @ 18U in the tournament, UTR around mid 12s for a few? (can't see the decimal places as have to pay)

Players feel the need to be playing Brit tours or if can afford it ITF's to meet more players with a UTR the same or higher than theirs, to try and get a UTR of 13+ so more college coaches will be interested.......


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Junior player

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I thought the whole point of UTR is that is wasnt like LTA Ratings and you could climb the utr just by playing matches and it wasnt about beating players at your level or above. If it is like this then its no diff then lta ratings and kids will avoid matches as described above.

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Club Coach

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Yes that's very worrying if that is the case. Just like the LTA ratings of not playing any matches after you have your 3 or 4 qualifying wins to move up each season.

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Junior player

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Precisely if that is the case then apart from how you progress the concept is identical. I hope we are wrong

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Satellite level

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The lack of transparency around how UTRs are calculated maybe part of the problem. From recent conversations I've heard or been part of, players/parents perception is that you don't want a loss/close match against a player with a lower UTR as would negatively impact your UTR; late tournament withdrawals and WO would be signs this is happening?? And if you can try and enter tournaments with players of similar or higher UTR and win at least 7 games (to be "competitive") then your UTR will go up. False reporting of scores so the match is competitive would be another way to influence UTR.
This is pure speculation on the part of all concerned, but with UTR being used to determine scholarships to US people are obviously going to look for ways to play the system.......

https://blog.universaltennis.com/2018/07/03/how-utr-works/

 



-- Edited by Elegant Point on Friday 3rd of August 2018 12:46:09 PM

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Tennis legend

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Not sure I really like how credit and debit is given for close / competitive matches anyway even without the knock-on effects that this being taken into account is apparently having with players possibly trying to avoid some such matches.

The big things should surely be good credit for wins against highly rated players and debit for losses against lower rated players, however achieved.

To be fair I don't know how much this competitiveness is taken into account in the ratings calculations, but tennis is surely ultimately about winning or losing, getting over the line however you do that.

And I would have imagined that players that can grit out wins / find a way would be just what many colleges would like.

I was aware from early reading that indeed some credit / debit was given in ratings for such close matches but is it indeed the case as suggested above that the actual calculation method is not transparent ( which would surely be not right ) or is it available but just a bit complex?



-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 10:35:36 PM

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Newbie

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This is a really interesting thread and Im grateful for the insight provided. Notwithstanding the data harvesting and recharging ethical debate, from my perspective UTR is one of the only credible sources of insight into the standard of international junior player.  I have never observed gaming of UTR to date - in fact it is difficult to game, and as a ranking system it isnt Binary - I.e did you win or lose - and hence rewards players to remain competitive throughout the match. Did I wish it was free and supplied by the ITF - yes! Is it the most credible thing out there for scouting - undoubtedly. LTA ranking, ITF ranking etc are all skewed by £ and / or smart tournament selection.



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Tennis legend

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Welcome, LP !

And very fair points....

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Tennis legend

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Although I'm a big fan of having different events, more events, and different pathways so there is flexibility, I'm rather shocked at the pricing for these events.

THe new Progress Tour event for the start of Jan in Cardiff lists entry fee at £38. And prize money of £300 for winner and £150 for runner-up.

courthive.com/t/e18602c2-89fc-414a-94fa-49c6ca2e1f5c?

That seems completely out of kilter.

For an event with the same prize money in France the entry fee is 23 euros (£20)

However, this is pretty much a fixed fee - the entry fee for a money event with three times the winner's prize money is only 27 euros.

I realise that the UTR have people over a barrel slightly in terms of American college entry requirements.

But French kids get in on their domestic rankings - it seems a far better deal.

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ATP qualifying

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Your UTR ranking is affected by most matches you play, not just those in UTR events - domestic LTA tournaments, junior and senior itf, WTA, ATP.  And yes the pricing is steep but I think I read somewhere that you are guaranteed several matches (someone please correct me if I am wrong on this last point).  And they also claim that because your opponents should (initially at least) have a similar UTR to yourself then these matches ought to be competitive and not completely one-sided.



-- Edited by The Optimist on Tuesday 20th of November 2018 12:05:13 PM

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